Summarized Transcript of Moving On Method

Who Is Jaclyn Tenaglia, and How Did She Become the ‘No BS Therapist’?
HOST (Michelle): Welcome back to another episode of Moms Moving On. Today, my Insta crush comes to life — we have licensed mental health counselor Jaclyn Tenaglia with us, known online as The No BS Therapist. Jaclyn, thank you so much for being here!
GUEST (Jaclyn): Thanks for having me! I’m a mental health counselor focusing on high-performing adults dealing with anxiety and stress. I’ve also worked extensively in substance use treatment and men’s mental health. For the first decade of my career, I worked in a methadone clinic, which is where a lot of my ‘no BS’ approach comes from.
HOST: How did you transition from that to private practice?
GUEST: I started my private practice in 2011 while still working full-time in the clinic, then transitioned to private practice full-time in 2019. Now, I offer telehealth across several states, including Florida, Connecticut, and New York.
Why Are So Many People Diagnosing Others Online?
HOST: You’re known for calling out social media trends that oversimplify mental health. What’s behind the obsession with diagnosing everyone online?
GUEST: There’s something called ‘concept creep.’ Terms like trauma, addiction, and abuse have expanded, so people start identifying with them even without clinical context. It’s become normalized to self-diagnose based on social media posts.
HOST: And that’s dangerous, especially when people use those labels in relationships or divorce situations.
GUEST: Exactly. Many of these posts are oversimplified and lack nuance. People mistake temporary behaviors for chronic conditions. True diagnosis requires context, history, and patterns.
Is Everyone Really a Narcissist, or Are We Misusing the Term?
HOST: In my divorce coaching work, I hear people constantly label their exes as narcissists or borderline. Is this accurate?
GUEST: Narcissistic Personality Disorder affects less than 5% of the population. Many people display narcissistic traits under stress, but that doesn’t mean they have a disorder. Divorce brings out the worst in everyone — ego, fear, and grief amplify behavior.
HOST: So instead of labeling, people should focus on behaviors and accountability.
GUEST: Yes. Ask, ‘What behaviors are actually happening?’ instead of assuming a diagnosis. Labels can prevent healing if they keep you fixated on your ex instead of your own growth.
How Can You Protect Yourself from a Difficult or Narcissistic Ex?
HOST: What can people do if they believe they’re dealing with narcissistic behavior during co-parenting?
GUEST: First, clarify the level of harm. If there’s genuine emotional abuse, that’s different. But in most cases, creating emotional space is key — don’t take the bait. Detach and limit unnecessary engagement.
HOST: What about setting boundaries?
GUEST: Boundaries are not demands. They’re clear actions tied to consequences. For example: ‘If you speak to me disrespectfully, I will end the conversation.’ You must communicate them clearly before enforcing silence.
HOST: That’s so powerful — silence can be manipulative unless it’s defined as part of a healthy boundary.
What Does Real Healing Look Like After Divorce?
GUEST: Healing involves self-accountability, self-awareness, and emotional regulation. It’s not about fixing the other person. Narcissistic traits often stem from attachment ruptures in childhood, not deliberate cruelty.
HOST: That’s a major perspective shift — realizing that someone’s harmful behavior often comes from their own unhealed pain.
GUEST: Exactly. Compassion doesn’t mean reconciliation, but understanding can help you move forward without bitterness.
HOST: For anyone rebuilding their self-esteem or co-parenting confidence, where should they start?
GUEST: Start with emotional intelligence practices — mindfulness, communication clarity, and detachment from outcome. Therapy, coaching, and community support are tools for post-divorce resilience.
Memorable Quotes
· “Boundaries aren’t demands — they’re clear consequences for what happens if they’re crossed.” — Jaclyn Tenaglia
· “You still have to do the work for yourself, whether your ex is a narcissist or a houseplant.” — Michelle Dempsey-Multack
· “Healing isn’t about labeling the other person; it’s about reclaiming your own emotional power.” — Jaclyn Tenaglia
· “Divorce shines a blacklight on everything — every flaw, every fear — but it also reveals what’s ready to heal.” — Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Conclusion
This conversation underscores the importance of emotional literacy, boundary setting, and mindful communication in the post-divorce recovery process. The misuse of diagnostic labels on social media has created confusion about mental health, but clarity begins with personal accountability and professional guidance.

Raw Transcript:

Welcome back to another episode of Moms Moving On. I love when my Insta crushes come to life here on the podcast, and that’s exactly what’s happening today. We have licensed mental health counselor, Jaclyn Tenaglia on with us.

She is also known as the no BS therapist on social media, who if you follow me, you know I share her work quite frequently because I love when someone is no BS. We have no room for bullshit in this space called life. Jaclyn, thank you so much for being here with me.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Of course. So you are a mental health counselor specializing in working with high-performing adults with anxiety and stress.

I think that’s all of us, but your 15 years of expertise also encompasses co-occurring disorders, such as ADHD, depression, men’s mental health. Yes, I specialize in substance use disorders. For the first 11 years of my career, I worked actually as a counselor in methadone clinic.

So that’s where some of the no BS comes from. Okay, so I wanna hear all about that. Like how did you go from that to what you’re doing now? Like what is the Jaclyn Tenaglia story? Yeah, so I started working there in grad school at my, it was my grad school internship and I fell in love with it.

So when my internship ended, I stayed on for another 10 years afterwards. But in that time I was kind of moonlighting and I had my private practice that opened in 2011 at night. So I would see people at night and had my like seven to three job at the clinic.

It was a lot. I’m sure. Yeah, so I transitioned into private practice full-time in 2019.

Very nice. And so now since 2019, I saw that you do telehealth. You’re in Boston, but you do telehealth in Florida, which is interesting.

Florida and Connecticut and New York. Wow. So like the tri-state area and Florida, which is like an extension of the tri-state area.

Very cool. Yes. How did you like, why Florida? I’m just curious.

Do you have like a connection? That was kind of a recent thing because it’s actually pretty easy to be, to have telehealth privileges in Florida. So I, yeah, long story short, that’s how I tacked that on. Okay, well, since you are really good at calling bullshit out on social media and you do it in a way that like, I don’t know, it makes me laugh, I think, because I resonate with it so much.

What, we got to talk about like, what is the social media obsession with just diagnosing everyone in your life? What do you think that’s coming from? There’s a few reasons for that, but one is this idea of concept creep. So the definition of certain terms like addiction or trauma or even abuse have been widened in recent years. So it’s becoming easier to see ourselves in some of these concepts, right? So we were widening the lens and just deciding that anybody who fits like the characteristic within the definition, one or two, now we’ve decided we can label and diagnose them, right? Because that’s what the Instagram posts said.

Yeah, and so that’s another thing on Instagram. There’s a lot of, if you X, Y, Z, then you have blank diagnosis. It’s way too prescriptive and it’s not leaving room for all the gray areas.

Plenty of people can, I’m being super vague, but there’s a lot of just diagnosing with ADHD, autism, trauma online. And we’re seeing a lot of that where there’s been more kind of inquiries for counseling for some of those reasons. And some of that is really valid and legitimate.

And in some other cases, it might be just an overinflated diagnosing, self-diagnosing specifically. Well, and that’s what I find so dangerous because working in the divorce industry, it’s only natural that when you initially separate from somebody, you’re both at your worst. I mean, the term in the divorce industry is that you’re seeing good people at their worst time, right? So like all of your worsts are coming out.

Your ego is bruised. You’re terrified. You have so many worries and struggles.

And so naturally no one’s on their best behavior. And more and more in the last couple of years, it’s, oh my God, Michelle, you don’t understand. I found this Instagram account.

It perfectly described the personality disorder that my ex has. And I’m like, oh, tell me more. Was your ex diagnosed by a doctor? No, no, no, this account.

It’s this account. And I’m like, you don’t wanna minimize somebody’s experience, but at the same time, 10 years ago, it was just my ex is being an asshole. Can you help? How do I handle a toxic, covert narcissist with borderline personality traits? And it’s really frustrating because the important work in the post-divorce phase or learning to co-parent with somebody is just managing yourself, not really trying to manage the other person.

So what do you think of all that? The diagnosis is not nearly as important as, okay, what specific behaviors are happening, right? If you say my ex is so depressed, well, what does that mean? Are they forgetting to pick up the kids from school? Are they in bed all day? Like what specifically, how do you know that, right? So be specific. And what does the knowing then lead to, right? So like you suffered at the hands of this person emotionally or physically, or they were cheating on you or whatever it is, but what does staying stuck on the label mean for moving forward? Does it, I mean, you’re the therapist. So like, does it actually help people process the pain? Does it help them take a step back and say, okay, this wasn’t really about me.

This was more about them. Where do you see the benefit in all of that? The benefit in diagnosing. Deciding to diagnose somebody.

Well, it’s also situational, but if we say, okay, my ex is in bed all day and they are forgetting to pick up the kids from school, then we can, when we start to see clusters of behavior together, we can put, we can form a story and do something about it if they are in fact depressed. But one of those things on their own does not indicate depression, right? Forgetting to pick up the kids from school could be for so many reasons. So these are really vague examples, but it’s just important to not isolate any one behavior and say, oh, this means that.

We’re seeing a lot of that online. Right, and I think also, you know, there’s a big fear or the word narcissist is so trendy that like people will come to me and say, oh, well, my lawyer said that my ex is the worst narcissist they’ve ever seen. And I’m like, wow, sounds like they wanted to instill some fear and really get this fight going, right? And so it’s just coming from all angles where it kind of like clouds the perception of the person who needs to really just detach and move on and learn how to co-parent with this person.

Do you think that there is any like difference made in co-parenting with someone once you’ve determined or if you’ve decided that they have a personality disorder or is it just best to like stay in your own lane and focus on your own stuff and, you know, go about your business instead of obsessing over what they could be or how they are? It really depends because, you know, is your, are they displaying kind of a sprinkle of let’s say narcissistic tendencies or are we looking at full-blown narcissistic personality disorder, which is much more rare. Now we’re talking as below 5% of the population, right? Whereas narcissistic traits could be more common perhaps. So could you repeat the question? Yes.

So is there, people will argue with me on social media and wait, Kevin, let’s take it from here, ready? So people will come and argue with me on social media because I tell them don’t get stuck on the label. Like regardless if your ex is a narcissist or a houseplant, like you still have to do the work for yourself to take care of your kids, to move on emotionally. Does, you know, hanging this label on them actually matter in co-parenting? Is it going to make it any easier? I don’t know about that.

And it really depends on what we’re talking about as far as the behaviors, you know, are they harmful? The person acting in a harmful way or are they just kind of being an asshole? Well, and that’s what I’ve always asked people. Like, is they, are they a narcissist or are they just an asshole ex? Because the lines are very blurred, right? Like we all have narcissistic tendencies and they all like, it’s like going under a blacklight when you’re getting divorced, like everything shines, all the bad stuff, you know, every lint on your sweater. And so it’s magnified in this.

And so that’s why I ask people to like step outside the way they’re behaving now. Was this persistent throughout the relationship? Can we think of times where the person wasn’t behaving this way so that we can maybe attach to that as like a goal point to get to in our co-parenting? Yeah, your account and mine have both really leaned into perspective taking and well, let’s look at it this way. Not in a victim blaming way, but just more from an accountability standpoint, right? What’s your stuff? What’s their stuff? What can we do about that? Yeah, and I, and it’s hard.

I mean, nobody, nobody wants to be treated poorly in a marriage or after a marriage, but unfortunately that’s what leads to a divorce. And, you know, my husband, who’s a family court judge will say to me, like, literally everybody comes in and says, every woman says my ex is a narcissist and every man says, my ex is crazy. I think she’s borderline.

And it’s like, it’s become white noise at this point when what we really have to do is emotionally disconnect from whatever it is to focus on the greater good of the kids. Yes. And look at, you know, okay, so if I am dealing with someone who has narcissistic tendencies, let’s say, how can I protect myself from that? And then just interact with them in a, just manage the relationship from afar.

I want to be clear. We are talking about situations where there is not abuse. That is a whole separate conversation.

You and I right now are, we’re just talking about people just not being their best selves and these labels being thrown around, diagnosis specifically being thrown around in a really haphazard way. And I’m all in favor of keeping these diagnosis so that there’s not as much misunderstanding. Right.

But are you asking about how can we protect ourselves from some of these? I do want to ask about that. And I do want to get to that because there are instances where narcissistic abuse is real and prevalent. And I think, you know, there are people who really believe it’s happening and then other people don’t even realize it’s happening because again, like the word is just out there.

The terms are just out there. Everyone’s toxic, everyone’s causing trauma. So I do want to get to that.

But I want to ask, a lot of people are under the assumption that if someone can cheat on you, they’re a narcissist because they have no empathy or care for others. Is that true or false? Not necessarily. They’re more likely to cheat, but someone who cheats is not necessarily a narcissist.

I actually said online, I think it was last week, that sometimes people who are prone to people-pleasing behaviors can be almost more susceptible to cheating because it requires saying no to a person or to temptation, which is not necessarily their standpoint. Interesting. I don’t know if I saw that.

See, that’s a perspective that I might’ve never considered. I love a perspective shift. You’re so good at that.

Thank you. And that’s just my own personal theory, just from anecdotal things I’ve seen and heard over the years. But I think that is something, we don’t talk about that enough.

Yeah, we don’t, we don’t. And I think there is, and I can understand from the mom perspective, such a fear of you’re not gonna be with your kids anymore when they’re with this other person. How can we protect them? And so let’s talk about that.

How can you protect yourself and your children if you are dealing with a true emotional abusive person or a narcissist, if that’s what they are? Well, in any case where there’s concern that the child is not in a safe situation, that is completely different from what we’re kind of discussing. Let me back up. I don’t feel qualified to speak to like the abuse.

Well, I’m saying emotional abuse only because most people will come and say, they were emotionally abusive to me, they’re gonna be emotionally abusive to the child. Whereas like a lot of times it’s bad behavior in the marital sense doesn’t always equate to bad parenting. And so it’s hard to see.

Right, yeah, sure. I’m checking in with kids often to make sure, sorry, I’m not a divorce expert by any means. So I just wanna stay in my lane.

Can you rephrase the question? Sure, so back on track to what we were planning to talk about. How can you protect yourself from narcissistic behavior if you believe this is what you’re dealing with and you don’t want your children to be affected? So again, we don’t wanna generalize, but looking at what harm has been done already, how are they harmful? Is this the kind of person that you need to block or communicate only through a parenting app or can you manage this relationship kind of from afar? Can you manage the relationship from afar? I mean, I think that seems to be the most healing thing is to really just kind of like lean into the fact that this person is who they are and you left for a reason. And now it’s time to like create that emotional space.

How do you help people do that? How do people create emotional space after the physical space? Some relationships just don’t need our active engagement and we can be appropriately, healthily detached from them. And I always say, don’t take the bait, right? If you are in fact dealing with someone with narcissistic tendencies and they might throw bait out at you and they wait and see, are they gonna take it? So not taking it kind of keeps you standing in your power. I love that.

Yeah, I mean, the bait it’s, and it’s almost like when you’re so used to that cycle of how they’re gonna treat you and how you may react a certain way. It’s like that codependency in full effect and taking the bait is almost like second nature. It can be really, really almost like, it can feel unnatural to not take the bait and not sort of engage because that’s either what you did to keep the peace or it was just like a response, a trauma response, if you wanna call it that.

So what would you say to the person who’s really working hard to emotionally separate themselves or depersonalize themselves from the other person’s behavior and they just feel like it’s coming at them at all times? So as we keep saying, we’re big on perspective taking and this is just one way of looking at it, but think of, this person’s development at some point was stunted, right? So a lot of what they do is just not personal even though it very much feels that way. Narcissism tends to arise from some kind of interpersonal trauma, like usually parent-child relationships where the parent either gave the child too much praise and adoration or too much criticism, one or the other. And so that tends to be where we see a lot of narcissistic tendencies in childhood where there’s been that kind of an interpersonal, sorry, an attachment rupture.

So, so much of it is just not personal. You’re dealing with someone who emotionally is very much stunted in childhood. Yeah, and I think that perspective really helps.

It’s kind of looking at the person from their wounded inner child and understanding that somebody who is actually a diagnosed narcissist with narcissistic personality disorder, they’re not choosing to be that way, right? So like almost not empathizing with them, but understanding that like, this is the only way they do know how to operate. Sad for them, but like, it’s not like they wake up and they’re like, I’m gonna be a narcissist just to my ex spouse. Yeah.

It’s who they are at their core. The unfortunate thing about narcissism is that a lot of tendencies can kind of work in that person’s favor. So it gets positively reinforced over time, right? They get the promotion and they’re more likely to kind of get what they want.

So it can be hard to dial back on traits that seem to serve us well in some ways at least. Yeah, well, and there’s also that serious lack of self-awareness too, I imagine. Definitely, absolutely.

Right, like my life seems okay for me. Why is it such a problem for you how I behave? Right. So if there is such an overuse of this word, the belief from so many people is that the world is just like crawling with narcissists.

You said there’s what, 0.05%? It’s as low as that, yeah. For narcissistic personality disorder. Is it because people with these tendencies are not like showing up at their psychiatrist’s office like, hey, I think I have a problem? Or is it because it really is just such a low number? I think both.

We see it being narcissistic, sorry, the diagnosis itself is being overinflated online especially, but many people have traits and I think that we’re seeing more dialogue around that. I feel like social media has made everybody turn up the narcissistic traits. Like we’re all out there all day, like look at me, look at me, like me.

What else can I do to get liked or positive praise? And it’s like feeding itself. It’s a good point. I don’t know any statistics on the trends if we’re trending upwards, if it’s being diagnosed more often now than say 10 years ago, I’m not sure about that, but it’s an interesting question.

Well, I do think if you’re looking for something more than you were before, you’re more likely to find it. I don’t know. I’m curious to see like when this trend dies down and what it leads- Of over-diagnosing.

Of over-diagnosing and what it leads to next. And maybe it’s not, maybe we’ll see it wasn’t over-diagnosing. Maybe we were just so starved for diagnoses before that like it’ll all make sense one day.

But I do think, and I stand by this as much as people argue with me about it, that getting stuck on what somebody else is or isn’t really doesn’t help you move forward. In most cases, putting a language to things can feel empowering though, and can kind of help us integrate our understanding of ourselves or a situation that’s happened or just another person in general. So there is something to be said for that, but I think many people are just going about it in a misguided way.

And these terms, it are, try to see if you can bounce some of this information off of a mental health professional instead of getting information from TikTok. Because the person on TikTok has, when someone on TikTok is diagnosing another person and then they’re able to redirect that person towards maybe a course that they’ve created on the topic or a book that they wrote, then they capitalize on the diagnosis. So we need to be really leery of where we’re getting our information from.

I always say that because I can’t even tell you, Jaclyn, how many people come to me and they’re like, I took so-and-so’s course and my lawyer couldn’t believe the advice that was given. And now I’m screwed because I followed this. And I’m like, like nothing, nobody should ever say do this or else, or this is the advice because in a course or in a workshop, like it’s not, every situation is so different and personal and depends so much on your history and the ages of your children.

And there’s just, nothing can be generalized enough on social media. There’s way too much generalizing online. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And none of this is a one size fits all approach. So being very discerning about where you get your information and asking questions and then taking that information to a mental health professional to clarify it or get better understanding before you call your lawyer and say, let’s do this because I decided this person is all of these things. And that’s stuff you can’t ever take back and it’s harmful for the children.

In what ways do you feel like it harms the children? Well, more people than not will come and say, well, it’s very clear that they’re a narcissist because of this Instagram or TikTok account that clearly laid it out for me and narcissists aren’t safe around children. So I don’t want my ex to have any custody. And it’s like, well, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

We are speculating and what ifing on the lives and the emotional health of your children right now because we have to decide, is the person’s presence in their life more harmful or more beneficial? And in almost every case, not having an attachment to a parent is going to lead to some sort of damage. Yeah, people can, this is my biased opinion based on what I’ve seen. I think people can have narcissistic tendencies and still be good parents.

They just need to be really mindful to not use their children as a source of their self-esteem or to never use their kids in that way. And that takes a lot of self-awareness. Oh yeah, yeah, for sure.

That’s the hardest part of parenting is separating yourself and who you wish you were as a child and what you wish your child would do because it’ll maybe make you look better as a parent. I mean, that’s the work right there. And it’s, as Glennon Doyle says, brutal because doing it feels so good, but at the same time, it’s so hard.

Anyway, what else can we cover on this topic? I think we’ve really gotten to all of it. I was gonna add some notes on boundaries. Oh, yeah, let’s talk about boundaries.

And control, because I was gonna say like boundaries aren’t demand, they’re specific and they explain what’s gonna happen if they’re not followed. Go for it. Let’s get into boundaries, baby.

Can you ask me a question? Kevin, all this like side chatter we can do without on the actual episode. All right, so boundaries are obviously really important when you are dealing with anybody really, but especially if you believe there is a narcissist on the other end of your divorce. So how do we put those into play and how do we enforce them? I mean, putting them into play is easy, it’s enforcing them, that’s the hard part.

Absolutely, I think it’s important to remember that boundaries, they’re not demands or ultimatums really, they’re specific and they explain what will happen if they’re not followed, right? So we might think that saying something like, you can’t talk to me like that is a boundary, but it’s actually, if we can be more specific, a proper boundary would sound like, if you talk to me like that again, I will leave this conversation, I will hang up the phone. So it’s specific and so, yeah. Yeah.

Not an ultimatum. And also understanding, I think, especially from the female perspective, if you weren’t comfortable setting boundaries in the relationship, setting them after is gonna feel really weird and awkward. And also, so many women will reach out to me and say, I’m worried that if I don’t respond to all of their harassment or all of the things they’re saying to me, I’m gonna look bad in the eyes of the court because I’m just choosing not to engage.

And that is the biggest myth ever because what the court sees, they’re not, if there are transcripts submitted of conversations, if they see one person constantly going, going, going, going with nothing productive being the end goal of that attack, they see who’s who and what’s what. If they see two people, it’s just banter back and forth and they don’t know which one is the aggressor or which one. So I always say to people, it’s okay to set the boundary of not responding.

If that’s the only boundary you set, you’re not gonna be in any trouble for not being a willing participant in an abusive conversation. Sure, and I’m a big promoter of no response is a response if you’ve already clearly laid out to them the boundary, right? If you don’t stop texting tonight, I will, whatever. And then if it’s not followed, that’s when you can kind of just communicate through silence.

Yeah, yeah, I mean- Otherwise it’s passive aggressiveness, right? If we aren’t clear, if we don’t speak up and advocate before using silence as a way to communicate, what are your thoughts on that? That’s interesting, I was just gonna say, I never looked at it that way. Yeah, I can see that. Like, yeah, I’m thinking of even conversations with people in my life who aren’t my ex.

Like if they just don’t respond to a certain thing, that feels really passive aggressive. So that is really important to communicate. Like, if you do speak to me this way, I can no longer engage with you today rather than just silence.

Because having been in some really unhealthy relationships, both with a parent and in my romantic life, silence was used as a tool for like punishment almost, and it felt very manipulative. So I can see why setting that boundary of silence and letting them know that that’s going to happen is important. That that’s coming, if you don’t stop, yeah.

Yeah, silence can be very painful for sure. And it can inflame the other person if it’s coming at them in a way. For sure, especially if they have attachment wounds or abandonment anxiety.

Oh my God. It absolutely can exacerbate those feelings. Been there, girlfriend, wow, for sure.

Yeah, boundaries are everything. And it’s another overused word, but really get to know and understand what a boundary is and which boundaries feel comfortable with you, whether it’s working with a therapist or a coach, you have to be comfortable enough to set them and enforce them. So they have to really make sense for you.

It’s kind of like a routine you would follow at the gym that’s specific to your body. This is like the workout for your brain. Where can you push your limits? Where are you comfortable going? And how are you going to be consistent with it? Because that’s the only way that it works.

So any other tips you wanna share with us about the maybe diagnosed person in our lives or just the difficult person in our lives we’re trying to protect ourselves from? Where a narcissist can be the most harmful sometimes is isolating us from our family and loved ones. And friends. So just making sure that you aren’t protecting them by not letting the people in your life in on everything that’s happening.

There could be a lot of shame there though. That’s why a lot of people might keep the interactions with a narcissistic person kind of private. They might not tell the people around them what’s happening.

But I think that the people in our lives should absolutely know so that we’re not at risk of being more isolated because that’s when they can really sink their teeth into a person. Absolutely. And do the most harm.

Yeah, and it’s a really scary thing to be involved in for sure. That’s a really great tip and a point. And also if you’re coming out of a situation with a narcissist and you are looking to reestablish relationships from the people you felt isolated from, don’t be ashamed to say, I was involved in something horrible and that’s why I pulled away or that’s why I detached from you.

And being open with people because I know what that’s like and it could be hurtful to the person who doesn’t understand. So be open and honest about it. Right.

And you’re not alone. So many people, especially strong women because I have this theory that they tend to specifically target strong women. And I think there’s a lot of power in dismantling the self-esteem of a woman who is really self-assured and confident or appears that way.

And there’s a, yeah. I can’t even believe you’re saying this because I’ll say to my husband sometimes, like I work with these bad-ass fucking women, like CEOs, celebrities, like women we wanna be. And the way they’re being treated and torn apart from the inside in the worst way, like it’s like they’re like magnets for it.

And it’s really interesting that you make that connection. I see it all the time. They’re not- I have too.

They’re not necessarily going after like the weak woman. It’s like you said, the challenge of tearing apart the strong one. Wow, mind blown.

Yeah, and again, I’m not a narcissist expert. So I don’t know the exact specifics or phenomena around that, but it’s something that anecdotally I’ve seen so often and it sounds like you have too. Yeah, yeah, it’s definitely a trend for sure.

I guess that could be like a part do somewhere because that’s, it’s really interesting. And you would think someone with narcissistic traits or a narcissist would be turned off by somebody strong because it’s a threat, but I guess it’s more of a game and a challenge. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Well, this has been more than eyeopening for sure. Jaclyn, I’m so glad you joined us. For those of you who are just meeting her for the first time, you got to head over to Instagram.

No BS therapist, no bullshit, literally. And be aware of her posts or my posts or anybody’s posts who kind of make you feel like, can’t believe she just said that. Ask yourself why.

Ask yourself why that post hits the way that it does because that’s when you really learn the most about yourself. Jaclyn, anything else? Where can everyone find you besides your great posts on the gram? On Twitter or X, I am tweet a therapist. Tweet a therapist.

That’s cute, I love that. Check her out everyone. And also her website, Jaclyn Tenaglia will be linked.

If you were in one of the many States where she is available to help you, you should definitely connect. If you’re looking to go a little bit deeper and do the work for yourself, that needs to be done. All that to say, we love having you here.

We love that you’re listening and we’ll see you next time on Mom’s Moving On. Of course.