Featured Guest: Erin Morrison, Conscious Parenting Expert & Author
Host: Michelle Dempsey-Multack
What Prompted This Episode?
MICHELLE: Unless you’ve been living under a rock, you’ve probably seen the viral Coldplay concert scandal involving a CEO’s workplace affair. As wild as the gossip is, the most frequent question I get is: “Do I tell my kids about the affair?”
This episode was prompted by the fallout families face when infidelity becomes public. We explore how to protect your kids from emotional fallout without denying their reality.
Introducing the Expert: Who Is Erin Morrison?
MICHELLE: Erin is a conscious parenting practitioner and the author of Three Minutes for Mom. She helps families navigate sensitive conversations with grace and grounding. I brought her on for her lived experience and expertise in trauma-informed parenting.
“You’re given this amazing privilege to step into your own pause, to not say and do things out of reaction.” — Erin Morrison
What Should Parents Do When Scandal Hits Home?
ERIN: Always approach your kids with age-appropriate honesty. Don’t rush to explain everything. Start with asking:
- “What have you heard?”
- “What are you thinking about this?”
- “How are you feeling?”
This builds trust and keeps you from projecting your emotional chaos onto your child.
“Children should only be given just enough information, they should never feel responsible for your well-being.” — Erin Morrison
MICHELLE: I tell clients to resist the urge to “fix it” immediately. That pause gives us time to regulate and show up with presence.
When Kids Ask About the Affair: What’s the Right Response?
ERIN: Use the concept of appropriate honesty. Tailor your explanation based on:
- Age and developmental stage
- Emotional sensitivity of your child
- How much they already know
Avoid unnecessary details, especially around sex or betrayal. Reinforce that they are loved and safe.
“An adult indiscretion doesn’t automatically mean someone’s a bad parent.” — Michelle Dempsey-Multack
MICHELLE: Let’s not pretend the kids won’t find out. But we can control the context and emotional tone.
What If You Mess Up the Conversation?
ERIN: It’s okay to walk back a conversation. Say:
- “I think I gave you too much information. Can we talk again later?”
- “You asking me shows how much you trust me. I want to honor that with a better answer.”
Parenting is about repair, not perfection.
Boundaries & Disclosure: What NOT to Say
MICHELLE: Even older kids who understand sex don’t need the details of their parent’s affair.
ERIN: Maintain generational boundaries. Don’t use your child as a therapist or a sounding board. You’re the safe container, not the one venting.
MICHELLE: We wouldn’t tell our kids about our best friend’s sex life. Why do it about their parents?
Real-Life Complications and Triggers
MICHELLE: I shared how my own father’s affair was dropped on me as a child. It made me grow up too fast. There’s damage when a child knows more than they can emotionally handle.
ERIN: That’s why infidelity falls under ACEs (Adverse Childhood Experiences) when there’s over-disclosure or forced maturity.
“The trauma isn’t what happened. It’s who was or wasn’t there for you afterward.” — Referencing Gabor Maté
What About Public Affairs and Collateral Damage?
MICHELLE: The public nature of this CEO’s affair created workplace fallout. A young HR staffer was pulled into the chaos and unfairly judged.
ERIN: Power dynamics complicate it. People assume others can just “report it,” but real life doesn’t work like that.
MICHELLE: Social media fuels the fire, but behind the memes are kids who now live with this reality.
How Can Parents Support Their Kids Through This?
- Don’t project your emotions, process them with your own support system first
- Ask your child what they feel or know before sharing your perspective
- Emphasize love, safety, and security
- Reiterate: “This doesn’t change how much your parents love you.”
- Avoid villainizing the other parent, even when betrayed
Final Takeaways for Conscious Co-Parenting
- Infidelity is an adult problem, but children live through its consequences
- Shield, don’t distort: Share only what they need to process their own experience
- Validate their emotions without making them your emotional caregiver
- Overcompensation with gifts or leniency doesn’t heal. Presence does
“The only thing you can overcompensate for that won’t mess up your kids is your love and intentionality.” — Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Raw Transcript:
[Speaker 1]
Unless you’ve been living under a rock, you likely already know about the scandal that has taken social media by storm. This cold play outing of a workplace affair that I mean, people are saying this has rocked the internet more intensely than anything else this year. And for good reason, it’s scandalous.
Everybody loves a scandal, but then everyone stops to ask themselves, what about the kids? And obviously in my line of work, I get this question a lot. Do I tell my kids about the affair?
Do I not? And what I’ve found are there are two schools of thought. There are the people who say, well, my children deserve to know the truth.
And then there are the people who say, I want to shield my kids as much as I can, so that their idea of their other parent isn’t tainted in a way that can’t be recovered. But then there are the situations where you’re outed at a concert and we don’t know what to make of it because inevitably the kids will find out. That’s why I had to invite Aaron Morrison on with us again for round 800 on this podcast, because not only is she the best person to talk to about this because of her work as a conscious parenting practitioner and author, someone who helps parents every single day, how to find the right words for their kids in every situation, but she’s just like my favorite human.
So it was like a double whammy, double whammy. Thanks for being here, Aaron.
[Speaker 2]
Oh my gosh. Okay. Same favorite person.
Also, we haven’t even talked about this one-on-one, just us. So I’m so happy we get to do it here too, because- It’s happening.
[Speaker 1]
It’s happening. It’s happening so fast. I left your house yesterday and on the way home, it was like blowing up my feeds.
And at first I was like, oh God, this is going to be good social media stuff. But as soon as I started sharing, everyone had something to say from, I can’t believe you’re sharing this. Well, I’m sorry.
It’s not like I was Chris Martin of Coldplay. But then there are a lot of people who say, oh my God, I feel so bad for the kids. And regardless of what their ages are, I have always been team shield your kids from information that probably isn’t appropriate to their parenting experience with this person.
But yet here we are.
[Speaker 2]
And I think, I don’t think I know that for most parents, we want to shield our kids from things that they don’t need to know, but there are situations where our children will come across information, whether it is unfortunately on the internet and it’s everybody’s joke of the day, or it’s something that happened in front of the kids or someone else knows and tells your children. And so I’m sure we agree on this. It’s always on an as a need to know basis.
There are so many situations where we have to tell our children about things we do not want to tell them. But when information comes from their safe, trusted caregiver, it allows them to feel a little more shielded from the harsh reality that’s in front of them. I mean, and I’m sure we agree a hundred percent on that, like that no one wants to tell their child, by the way, you’re going to be online and dad’s going to be all over the news with that woman that he’s always at work.
[Speaker 1]
But here’s the one who was just at our family barbecue. How could that be? I can’t, I know we both have green drinks.
I can’t even imagine. Mine is so not matcha because ew.
[Speaker 2]
You need my matcha, but we’ll get into that. I need to make you my matcha. This is fantastic, but I’m going to switch to almond milk.
[Speaker 1]
Okay. Well, all that to say there is a shock factor involved. You know, something tells me, or what I’ve seen in my years of working with couples is that when there is an affair or infidelity of any kind, it’s not like there’s this huge surprise.
Like everything was perfect. There’s always going to be, if people are honest with themselves, there’s most often going to either be already a strain on the relationship and, or a suspicion of some sort, right? Like not that that makes it okay.
But what I’m saying is in the larger sense for the woman on the receiving end of this, who had to find out in this way and whose life is now turned upside down. I’m sure that whatever was going on in the home, this split may cause, um, actually her to step into her own power. She might feel better about having entered a relationship with somebody she had to wonder about.
But nonetheless, kids, no matter their age are affected by divorce. I get stopped all the time by adults who have grown up, you know, have survived their parents’ divorce, but will say to me, there were so many things I wish I didn’t know. Like I just didn’t need to know.
But then you have scorned people whose egos are ranging, raging in the beginning of the divorce process, who really feel justified in letting their kids know certain information because they think it’s going to, I don’t know. That’s, and that’s the question. Like, what do you, what is your intent here?
Right. And what we know is professionally is when you tell a child about the divorce, you never want to paint one of the parents as the bad guy, but in this case, somebody is a bad guy. So what now, what are the best ways we can handle this when our kids find out information that is way bigger than them?
[Speaker 2]
Right. And I think with any situation, like regardless of what you are talking to your child about when it’s hard, especially if it’s about another parent, you always want to start with, you know, what, what are you thinking? What questions do you have?
You always want to give them the floor first to disclose what it is they’re thinking about or they’re wondering or worrying before you also word vomit out too much information that they need or don’t need to know.
[Speaker 1]
That’s a really good point. And I’m grateful for that point, because I think naturally as parents, our inclination would be to like jump in and say all the things to fix the situation, shutting down, like putting the drain, stopping the flow from our kids, like stream of thoughts. We’ve now put the narrative in their heads.
[Speaker 2]
A hundred percent. Like if this happens all the time, it’s happened with my own children and they’re, they’re not old enough. If you feel they’re not old enough to understand sex, right?
Like this is not related. This is similar, but it’s related. Before you go ahead and they say, what’s this?
What do you know about that? I’m so curious, like what you want to know, what you’ve heard? Like, how can I help you understand it more?
You may ask that question and be like, oh my gosh, they actually had no idea what they were asking. They just heard a word. The same would go, unfortunately, for this situation.
I have no idea how old these children are, who knows what was going on, like you said before with the mom, but always taking a step back before you react and allowing it to be more about the child than about you and your own fears and your own worries. Because unfortunately, like that’s how we all operate. We’re all human.
We all think first with our own experiences and our own emotions. But when you’re a parent, you’re given this amazing privilege to step in to your own power and your own pause to not say and do things and react and actually give the floor to your child. So then you can make the best choice possible with the next thing you’re going to say or the next piece of information you have to give them.
[Speaker 1]
I mean, obviously this is the way it should be done. But I think when there’s so much pain behind the reason for having this conversation, right? Nobody wants to have a conversation like this with their kids.
It’s really hard for the average person who is not already like a parenting specialist. I preach this day in and day out, separate your emotions from the experience with your child. Most people can’t do that.
And when they try to, if it’s inauthentic, it’s going to come out somewhere else, right? So like you tell the child, well, but don’t worry, he’s still a great dad. And then three days later, they hear you on the phone with your friend and they’re like overhearing you talk about this piece of shit to ruin your life.
So it’s, it’s a very tricky thing and it’s really hard to do. That’s why, again, I want to go back to asking them what they know, because it’s almost like you’re giving yourself a minute to collect yourself and your, Oh my gosh, of course.
[Speaker 2]
Buy yourself time, call your therapist immediately or your coach or whatever.
[Speaker 1]
So a lot of times for kids, they’ll come home and either the other parent has told them something that you’re, you weren’t ready for your child to know, or they’ll hear something at school. Like I always share the story about how Bella came home and asked me what revorced meant because she overheard the word divorce. And it was my fault for never explaining divorce to her using that word.
Cause she was only two. I didn’t think I had to. So now she’s like, are you reborn?
Like she didn’t get it. And luckily it was just that it wasn’t anything more scandalous, but kids will come home and want answers. And that’s, that’s, it’s a very heavy thing when it falls into your lap.
[Speaker 2]
It’s so heavy. And I, and I love the idea of a pause, but if that’s not what happens and you do overindulge with information and you see your child’s face, it’s okay to stop there too. I think that’s the important thing to know.
It’s like when we talk about parenting things on podcasts or wherever, it seems like there’s just this one way to do it. Okay. Pause.
Don’t say anything, ask questions. But for most of us, it doesn’t work that way. Most of us, we actually step over the line.
We’re like, shit, I shouldn’t have said that to my daughter. You know what, sweetie? These are big questions.
You’re right. Like, let’s take a step back. Like you’re allowed to make a mistake and then reverse.
Like it’s not always going to be perfect. And I think that’s like the most important thing to stress to parents because it seems like there’s perfect ways to handle things. It’s never going to be that way.
But the moment you catch yourself or you see the look in your child’s face or you realize maybe they weren’t asking as detailed information as you thought, then you can backtrack. Then you can start from the place of asking them questions again. Okay.
[Speaker 1]
Now here’s a question. In your perspective, let’s say the child finds out about the infidelity, right? One of the parents was unfaithful.
That’s the reason for the divorce. If they come to you with questions, but you were not the one who engaged in said acts, would it be right to say, you know what, that was something your father did. You should talk to him about it, or can you just take the stage and speak on it for yourself?
I don’t know. I mean, I’m genuinely asking because I don’t know.
[Speaker 2]
Oh my gosh. Well, I mean, I use the term all the time, appropriate honesty for a reason, because it means that it’s appropriate based on your child’s age and the child in front of you that you know. If you have two children, three children, they’re all going to experience things so differently.
So if your teenager comes to you, you’re going to be giving them more appropriate information than you would a child who’s six or seven. And that has to be, again, in that moment, if they do ask you that question, I’d love to know why are you asking this? Where did you hear this?
How are you feeling? I’d love to know what you’re thinking about or how you felt. And if you don’t know what to say, you can always say, this is so important and I want to give you the best answer possible.
I’m going to think about this. I want to make sure I say it exactly how you need to hear it. And then yes, call your therapist.
Call if you’re talking to that person, how they want you to handle it. You’re probably not in the best co-parenting situation in that moment. So it’s okay to pause.
Because what I mean, and I’ll backtrack by appropriate honesty, is that when we’re honest with our kids, sometimes we think, oh, I have to be honest. And we blurt out so much information that’s more about our own emotions versus the actual facts that are going to help our children. The appropriate part is about what is best for my child to know in this moment so that they can grow and that they can feel like they can trust their parents and thrive.
I know that’s such a broad answer, but it truly is different for every single child. So we can go by age, but generally speaking, I love saying appropriate honesty. Is this what they need to know now?
And then what information is necessary for them to know so that they can feel safe and trust me as their parent, that I’m going to give them information that’s going to help them, not hurt them? Correct.
[Speaker 1]
And I’m wondering, in the case of infidelity, which is a betrayal of trust, how do you explain that to a child and then also say, this person is still trustworthy? Because I’m very much of the mindset that an adult indiscretion does not automatically mean somebody is a bad parent. But most, most angry divorcing people who find out they’ve been cheating on will say, well, how can I trust this person with my kid if I couldn’t trust them at work?
Two totally separate things. But yeah, this thing happened and you still have to help your child feel safe with them. So what do you say in that situation?
[Speaker 2]
I’m in the same camp with you. I do not think that makes someone a terrible person. And I also think when you’re a parent, every choice you make does affect your children.
So does that mean that that part, does that mean this guy, I just can’t get the picture out of my head. Does that mean that this guy and this woman intentionally made this choice because they didn’t care about their children? Of course not.
That’s not what they did. Make a choice in your life as a parent, it is ultimately going to affect your child. It’s going to in some way.
That being said, you can absolutely say to your children and in, and again, the age appropriate way, you know how if you have a brother or sister or you have a cousin or someone in your life that you love them and they’re so much fun and we have a good time, but also sometimes they hurt you and they do things that you wish that they didn’t do. I’m going to use that as a comparison. It’s not the same thing, but that’s the most, that’s the closest thing I can explain to you.
And that’s how it could be. That’s what dad and mom, this thing happened and yeah, it hurt me so much and I would love to hear how you feel about it too, but I’m going to handle that for me. Mommy has people in her life that are going to help her and I’m here to help you.
Let’s talk about this X, Y, and Z. I think you can give it as little information as possible. If the child is older and they ask more details, why did they do it?
Who is that person? Are they my new mom or dad? Then again, if you don’t have those answers, I’m going to get back to you and I want to give you a good answer.
If you do have those answers, great. You can give it to them right then and there. I am absolutely, at least if for my, I’m thinking of my kids, my kids, they would rather more honesty and I would be okay with giving them more honesty in a situation that I know might be hard for them versus trying to cover up and lie and pretend like things are okay.
Because my kids can sniff out the truth and they know when I’m mad. If I’m mad at my husband, they know.
[Speaker 1]
They can tell. And I tell them. Most people are going to be able to sniff out the truth, right?
Right. And that’s where they’re always, I stress to my clients all the time, the importance of both ends. Mommy can be both really upset with daddy right now and know that he loves you and you deserve to have a great time with him.
The two are not the same, right? But this is coming from a place of imagining everyone’s going to handle things without their ego at play. I want to go back to something you said about the sex piece of it because naturally, well, hopefully when your child’s like six or seven years old and they overhear that daddy had an affair, it’s not being explained as like, yeah, they wanted to go have sex with somebody else.
But my understanding of my parents’ affair, I was just at the cusp of understanding that adults did things in bed together. I didn’t necessarily know the nitty gritty details, but my dad’s affair was dropped in my lap and then I had to go off to his apartment a few hours later with this woman who now made my mom cry. Anyway, but I remember, they didn’t give me a bedroom.
So at night I would crawl outside their bedroom door because I wanted to know what was going on in there. I wanted to know what was so bad about them being in bed together, what were they doing? And it just forced me to grow up way faster than I needed to.
I wasn’t ready for that understanding yet and it damaged me in a lot of ways. So how do you explain… Unfortunately, kids over a certain age are going to know that an affair means sex and that’s really cringey because nobody wants to think of their parents ever, no matter how old you are, having sex.
And then it’s out there in their faces. We’ll come back to that, but how do you explain what an affair actually is when the child hears that word to a kid who doesn’t know what sex is yet? Of course.
[Speaker 2]
Yeah. And I think, again, it’s about making a promise. I think you use words and understandings from your life.
And it’s like, when we get married, we make a promise, right? And it’s saying, I love you. You love me.
We’re just going to love each other. And you know what? That didn’t happen here, right?
Maybe they fell in love or something. I mean, again, so it’s like I have to know the situation. But I think it’s important to put things into to simplify it for them, but always to wrap it up with, and I’m handling it, right?
And I’m going to be okay. I’m sad now. It’s normal, right?
If your friend tells you they’re going to give you, it’s too simplified. If your friend says they’re going to give you two stickers at lunchtime, and then they don’t give it to you, you’re going to be so sad. You’re going to think they’re not a good friend, like that kind of thing.
So daddy took my stickers away. Frickin’ took my stickers. But with being honest with your kids, it’s so important to know that the one conversation you have is probably not going to, it’s not going to be that one conversation.
They’re going to come to you again, and you want them to. And the truth is no one’s prepared to have these conversations. I wouldn’t be prepared to have that conversation right now, even though I talk about it.
It’s going to take time and trusting in yourself that you always have your child, we say, always have your child at the forefront of every conversation, especially regarding divorce, and knowing that you’ll mess up. You’re going to know that you’re going to mess up, that you’re going to make some mistakes, but it doesn’t mean that that one conversation is going to scar them for life, hopefully. If you’re listening to this podcast or this chat, probably not.
You’re probably not going to do something that you care enough to listen and make sure that you’re making the right choices. But I think no one’s prepared for this type of conversation, and you get really trying to do your best.
[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And something I tell my clients who are talking to their kids about, or if their kids have come with questions about, maybe my client has shielded the child from certain truths and realities about the other woman. But now, time has passed and the kid is connecting dots, and they’re asking, are you divorced because of this person?
Or did daddy have this girlfriend before you got divorced? Something I always tell my clients is even if you’re put in that really tough spot to have to have that conversation, don’t forget that you are not the one who engaged in the act that is disappointing your child. So it may be really difficult to have a conversation that you know is going to be uncomfortable for your child.
But at the end of the day, this only changes their perception of the person who engaged in the bad act, not yours. So take a deep breath and just know that. And know if you’re that concerned, it’s because you really care.
You don’t want your child to have to know. You can’t control that your ex made a decision, a selfish decision that was ultimately going to impact the whole family.
[Speaker 2]
And that’s beautiful. And I think too, you made me think of something we had talked about before. It’s like, am I giving my child this information to somehow convince them that I’m the good one and they’re not the good one?
I feel like that’s such an important piece. Not that we ever intentionally set out to do it, but we have to constantly check ourselves in these types of conversations. Because it is absolutely impossible to remove every single emotion you have about a co-parent and ex, especially when they’ve hurt you repeatedly.
So knowing that you have to keep checking in with yourself on that. Because there are probably so many times you’re like, why am I trying to convince your children? No.
If your child’s coming to you, you’re already the safe parent. You’re already the one that they’re asking. Please explain this to me.
Please help me understand.
[Speaker 1]
That is such a good point. I’m glad you said this. It’s actually giving me so much relief because I had to have a difficult conversation with my daughter last week, who was asking questions.
And I was emotional over the fact that she was even asking them. And it never dawned on me that she probably only came to me with them because of our safe connection. So I appreciate you pointing that out.
I want to go to the kids that are a little bit older who already understand what sex is. I will have clients say to me, well, it’s not like they don’t know what adults do. They already know how it works.
And I’ll say to them, would you sit your children down and tell them about your best friend’s sex life when she starts dating again, or your friend around the block who had an affair? No, you wouldn’t because you don’t, you know, you don’t watch sex scenes on TV with your kids for a reason. It’s uncomfortable.
And if you do, I don’t, that’s a separate conversation, but why would you then think it’s okay to openly discuss the sex life of their other parent, right? Just because they know what sex is doesn’t mean it’s a topic that they can handle. And I’m just wondering, you know, what you can say in those moments because it is cringy and they know what an affair means.
And now they’re picturing their parent in this situation. And this is where the anger really ramps up. And developmentally, it’s age appropriate for children, like preteen, teenage age to have to pick a villain in this situation.
So how do you rationalize it with a child who actually knows what’s going on?
[Speaker 2]
Yeah. And I think it’s different between like the child directly asks that question, like, did they have sex? And like, what does this mean?
Versus you divulging the information about talking about their sex life, like absolutely not. There is so much research that shows that regardless of the child’s age, I think it’s Mnuchin in Family Systems, if you remember him, that just talks about how regardless, there’s generational boundaries. And regardless of the age, the child is always the child, the adult is always the caregiver.
And so even when you think that maybe they understand sex, that is not a boundary that needs to be crossed. I love saying this often because I know a lot of us say, but my child’s my best friend. I know what people mean when they say that.
But just to divide it for those who don’t understand boundaries, your child can feel like you’re their best friend, but you should never feel like your daughter is or your son is your best friend in the sense that you could tell things that you tell to your best friend to your child. But yes, the child should feel like you are their best friend where they could tell things to you like they would their best friend. So that’s the differentiation.
And I say that with love because I know I would say that to my bestie. I love her, right? I love my son too.
I love every little thing they tell me. I don’t tell them every little thing just because we’re mom, son, mom, daughter, best friends. You know what I mean, right?
[Speaker 1]
Yeah. No, I know. And there’s certain situations, even within our friend group, in our specific situation, we have a very tight knit friend group and the father of one of her friends is not, well, he’s sick.
And there was a question of like, do we tell the kids, when do we tell the kids? And it wasn’t until I knew like, I was never going to sit down and be like, so your friend’s dad is sick. It wasn’t until I knew she was going to have to face it or be confronted with it.
And that other kids would be talking about it, that I had the conversation with her. And I think that’s another good point too. You don’t need to have these conversations.
If you’re in a bubble of life where your child may not ever find out or if this was a- God willing, they don’t. Right. I would not have told Bella that information because it is scary and it is heavy and then it causes anxiety in her about what’s going to happen.
Is this person going to die? What if you have a tummy ache? You know what I mean?
So I was never going to share that with her until I actually had to. And that’s something else to keep in mind also.
[Speaker 2]
Can I tell you, I had a lot of people reach out to me about the Texas flooding because Michelle and I both have children who go to sleepaway camps. And a lot of people were, which was beyond. And I was actually off social media in that period of time.
So I felt like- I’m glad because yours wasn’t at camp yet, but mine was.
[Speaker 1]
And I’m already Googling the placement of the bunks near the lake. I mean, it’s traumatizing for us. I know what you’re going to say.
At no point, and I was so happy that Cam sent an email home about this, that they said, our children don’t have access to the news. This isn’t a conversation we’re having with them. And if you choose to have it with them over the break, make sure your child knows that this is like a sensitive topic.
Other kids don’t need to know about this right now.
[Speaker 2]
A hundred percent. And I think that, well, a lot of the questions were coming in. What do I do?
Some people that had, they were in the same community. And so naturally that was going to be a conversation that they had to have, right? Others were saying that their children were away at sleepaway camp and parents were emailing the children, telling them about the kids in the community when they didn’t know.
This is such a difficult thing. So my piece to say there is that whenever you’re going to tell your child something, make sure you’re telling them something because it’s going to help them in some way, help them make sense of their personal situation, their community, or if they’re going to have access to the news. Any other reason, I unfortunately see it happen a lot today where parents tend to take their own emotions, their own overwhelming guilt about the world or what’s going on and feel like telling their child is somehow empowering their child to be some sort of, I don’t know, activist or some caring and empathetic child.
And I’m just like, oh my God, no, let them be kids. Let them be kids.
[Speaker 1]
Well, this is why the anxiety in children is now presenting earlier and earlier. I mean, I think here in Florida, the governor signed a bill that children had to be screened at age eight or something like that. Did you hear that?
No. But it makes a lot of sense. And I think, look, I think part of it is we live in a world where we’re so much more inundated than ever with garbage all the time.
[Speaker 2]
It’s awful. It’s awful. Except for the CEO thing I did.
I don’t know why. Why is it so fascinating, by the way? Can you tell us?
Why are we all so obsessed with this story?
[Speaker 1]
I think the way the whole… I was at the gym this morning and my trainer was like, you got to pretend like everything’s fine. Then people don’t make a big deal of it.
Had this guy not… He literally ducked down behind the seats. Like, dude, you literally had the scarlet letter, like, G, guilty on your head.
Now we know what you’ve done.
[Speaker 2]
And the girl behind them that clearly was held hostage by their stupid affair that had to be in their… I feel like it was probably a team member that was like, I have to fucking go along with this.
[Speaker 1]
Oh, the one in the black t-shirt?
[Speaker 2]
Yeah. This girl had to go along. What is she going to do?
It’s the CEO. It’s a person in power.
[Speaker 1]
Actually, the New York Post posted about who she was a little while ago.
[Speaker 2]
Who is she?
[Speaker 1]
I noticed the post has since been deleted. She’s a new hire in the HR department at that company. So my thought was like, at first I’m like, screw this bitch.
She’s in on the act. She’s keeping the secrets. But then I’m like, this is the collateral damage of an affair.
Because it’s not just the families. It’s not just the marriage. It’s not just the kids.
Now you’ve put people in a situation in your workplace. They’re probably going to turn around and sue this CEO and the affair.
[Speaker 2]
I have a story for you offline, not here, that I will tell you and you’re going to die.
[Speaker 1]
But yeah.
[Speaker 2]
Sounds like you’d be really good online though. No, I can’t. But I’m telling you this happens, like you said, all the time.
[Speaker 1]
So my thought is, okay, so I read about this girl before the post deleted the article. And I’m sure there’s more information out there now by the time people are listening to this. But she was a new hire in the HR department.
Obviously, it’s unclear whether or not she knew. But from a young girl getting hired in a company standpoint, maybe this is her first big job. I don’t think that she was told, hey, you’re going out with so-and-so tonight and they’re having an affair.
I think this was something that was probably just dropped into her lap. She’s probably just trying to play along, doesn’t know what to do in this situation. I don’t think she has any responsibility to, I mean, who’s she going to report it to?
She can’t report it to HR. He had an affair with the HR director.
[Speaker 2]
But in other circumstances, that would be the right thing to do, not necessarily like- And that goes to show you the internet is so ridiculous. People, I love to weigh in. You have no idea what it’s like to be someone with very little power in a place as someone with a lot of power and think you’re going to be some social justice warrior.
What are you going to look up his emergency contact and text a picture to the wife? It’s not going to happen. So it’s easier said than done.
But I’m just enamored by it. I mean, I just can’t with the memes. They’re so good.
And yet, at the same time, I have some hurt inside of me knowing that this is someone’s real life.
[Speaker 1]
And also knowing that 85% of affairs begin in the workplace. And so if your partner is going to cheat on you, there’s a likely very high chance that it’s happening with somebody at work. And so I think part of this, I think the people who have had the strongest negative reactions, like the ones who are yelling at me in my comments, are probably either the ones who have done something like this and or have been directly affected by it recently.
[Speaker 2]
It’s probably work, gym, school, neighborhood, right? Think about it. It’s just like where you reside, where you spend your time.
People don’t have time to go out. I don’t have time to go out somewhere else.
[Speaker 1]
I’ve been working with clients who have either cheated or been cheated on for many years now. And the majority are work. Second to that, I’ve had many, many clients whose spouse has cheated with the child’s school teacher, very often kindergarten teachers.
Like, okay. Yeah. Homeschool maybe.
I don’t know. And then there’s also the, the, the next door neighbor or the girl in the neighborhood who is also very happily married. And they’re all spending time together as couples, but either way it happens.
And so we’re all watching this from the lens of like, I’m so glad it’s not me. And also justice for this poor wife who has to find out in this way. And also the karma here is beautiful.
There’s so many aspects to it that make it like a TV movie. Oh my God. I know.
[Speaker 2]
And it’s Coldplay. Wait, did you see that Nikki was at the concert? Yes.
I have to like check her Instagram to see if she put anything on there good.
[Speaker 1]
Cause then, you know, she did. Our friend, my good friend, Nikki Marie that you guys know, Nikki Marie Inc. She actually just had a post go viral.
She was with her brother at the concert and he like did a video of her crying, listening to one of the songs. And it was like, when you’re a single divorced mom at a Coldplay concert, little, did she know that that moment was also going to be viral for these cheating reasons. But Bethany Frankel just put something out that, that the post also just shared that she was like, are you guys like, what are you smoking?
Like Coldplay, everybody, you know, goes to the Coldplay concert, your neighbor, your grandmother, it spans generations, right? Like you want to have an affair, go to the motel six.
[Speaker 2]
Don’t be not only at the concert, but on the jumbotron embracing like idiots, like goes to show you like people’s like ego and that like, they think they can just come and go as they please and do what they want. Like, but yes, no, totally.
[Speaker 1]
Something on TikTok this morning that was like, here are ways now that we know that 85% of affairs happen at the workplace. Here are ways to not freak out when your husband tells you he’s working late and I just held up like a blank piece of paper because I don’t know. I think we’re all going to be like, well, yeah.
How’d that meeting go?
[Speaker 2]
Yeah. How was Coldplay?
[Speaker 1]
Tell me about that.
[Speaker 2]
Wait, hold on. I forgot. I was like, I was looking for this.
I was, that’s sorry. I was like on my phone, but I was looking, there was, I remember there was research about this, about over-disclosure for kids and why it’s not. Oh, bringing it back to the topic.
Good job. I know. Wait, no, no.
But like I had, I was like, wait, I was, when I was like, blow-drying my hair for this, I was like, I have to find this study. Schoenfeld and DeMaria, which we love that name, DeMaria. Okay.
[Speaker 3]
Is that from school?
[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Like the best teacher. Okay.
Over-disclosure, i.e. telling a seven-year-old all the reasons for divorce or venting creates emotional overload and leads to internalized guilt within a child. So children should only be given just enough information. They should never be responsible for their child’s wellbeing.
So in times of stress, the studies show that age-appropriate limited disclosure is what works. This is like empirically based research. So it’s not just our opinion.
It’s true. You have to know it’s age-appropriate. It has to be a need-to-know basis.
And I just think like, always bring it back to that. And if you are so freaking emotional in the moment your child’s talking to you, you have to tell them, I love you so much. I’m going to go take care of myself right now so I can answer your questions.
That’s so important. I love that you came to me.
[Speaker 1]
I didn’t do this recently, not in a situation about an affair, but like my daughter, God bless her, hasn’t had to be privy to many disagreements between her dad and I. And recently she was, and I froze. It’s that guilt piece that I can see being very, very real because it’s like, your child did not ask for this situation, right?
You made the adult decision to divorce or cheat or whatever, but now this becomes the child’s lived experience. And they already feel torn between two people. So when one’s upset at the other one, there’s a guilt associated with, well, I’m enjoying my time with this person, but they hurt my other parent.
Am I bad? And this is very real and it happens no matter whether there was an affair or not. And we have to be really cognizant of that.
[Speaker 2]
Wait, I have a question then for you. A parent like you, who I know, because I know how you parent, who does everything in their power to put their child first and actually does, at what point when you realize that you really can’t shield your child from the co-parenting relationship when it goes awry in front of them? At what point do you let them use what they’ve seen with their eyes and make their own judgment versus try to create the narrative for them?
[Speaker 1]
That’s a really great question. And I think as well-meaning parents, the ones who do want to be supportive of the child’s relationship with the other parent, and my therapist pointed this out to me, that there’s a fine line between being a supportive co-parent, putting their feelings first and their relationship with the other parent first, and completely denying their reality. So my daughter witnessed a disagreement.
Part of me wants to be like, oh, no, no, no, it’s fine. It wasn’t fine. She knew it was uncomfortable.
So what has to happen is just because they’re a little bit older doesn’t mean you start divulging everything, but you have to meet them where they’re at in terms of what their experience was in each situation. You can’t deny it. You can’t say, oh, that didn’t happen.
That’s what used to happen to me and it was terrible. It’s why I can’t trust myself. But for, now we know better, for my daughter in this situation is like, yeah, it happened.
It was she. Tell me how you feel about it and talk about it. It’s just about not letting the child internalize it.
I talked about this actually with Nikki on her podcast with adults. When we go through stressful stuff, we’re really good at externalizing the feelings. We go to therapy, we go to yoga, we read a book, we talk to everybody who will listen.
Kids don’t have those because they don’t have the autonomous control over their day-to-day life where they can go take a yoga class for stress. They internalize it all. If we’re at least saying to them, yes, this happened.
Yes, I saw how hard it was for you. Talk to me about it. Even without answers, I think that’s the best we can do.
[Speaker 2]
Amazing. Yes. I think you’re right because that’s what, I’m going to butcher his quote, Gabor Mate says.
The trauma is not the thing that happened to you as much as it is what the story was and who was there for you to help you understand what happened to you. That was definitely, over information and being privy to adult things is on ACEs. That’s a part of it.
If you are overexposed to adult-like things, let me say it again, you’re exposed to adult-like situations with no adult-like control. That is the true meaning of powerlessness for a child. I love how you said that.
It was good. Of course, it was good.
[Speaker 1]
I love that quote by him. I feel like I’ve seen it in bits and pieces, but it really is hitting me now because I have said regarding my own experiences as a child that, and this is why I say it’s not the divorce that fucks kids up. It’s the things that happen after that the kids don’t know how to cope with.
I always say it’s not what happened to me with my dad. It’s the fact that there was no support afterwards. There was no, hey, that must’ve been really scary or hard or overwhelming.
There was no therapy. There was no acknowledging of anything because I come from a culture and a family where everything’s fine, but on a smile. That’s the hardest part for a kid because we are not, some of us even as adults are not equipped to deal with traumatic events.
[Speaker 2]
We’re not. I want to just go to someone that maybe has used that strategy. Maybe you’re sitting here listening to this and you’re like, yeah, I’ve been really telling my children that everything is okay.
You can say that things are okay for you in the sense of mom’s handling herself, dad is handling himself. Assuming that just because you’re saying that you’re okay and everything’s okay, that means your child’s okay is definitely a place to open up a little more and just be like, you know what? Let me ask you how you feel about that.
That’s okay if they tell you that they’re sad or that they miss living in the same house. All those things are sad and beautiful that they’re telling you. I think that that’s what we always have to come back to because like you said, you didn’t do the, maybe you did the damage.
You didn’t do the damage, but you’re not going to create more damage by giving them appropriate honesty and support in your ear and allowing them to process it. That’s not going to create more damage. What is, and perhaps what your parents or your mom did with so much, our parents generally try to do what they think is best for them with the resources they have.
Because that’s a cultural thing, we just push it down. Everything’s fine. They think that that’ll be fine for you too.
What I noticed now as a parent is my unhealthy coping strategies and defense mechanisms are things that just don’t work for my kids and they let you know right away. If your child is, go ahead. Sorry.
[Speaker 1]
No, it’s yes. Yeah. But also you, look, you have the self-awareness to know that some of your coping mechanisms, A, are not- Shit.
… are not great and B, not what you would want for your children. I think also we’ve become more self-aware as a society.
It’s not to say you have to do things perfectly, but you have to be aware of the fact when you’re not. Erin is not somebody who would ever let someone she knows suffer alone.
[Speaker 3]
She wasn’t feeling well the other day.
[Speaker 1]
Stop it. Stop it. You’re so bad.
Yeah. She wasn’t feeling well the other day and she wouldn’t let any of us be there for her. She’s like, yeah, I’m fine.
I’m fine. She was not fine. But it’s this coping mechanism that I think is also largely due in part to our childhoods where we had to do things for ourselves.
There’s always people who are like, well, I turned out fine and I didn’t have any support. You didn’t. And we now know that children shouldn’t have to face things alone.
So whether it’s them finding out really uncomfortable information that they shouldn’t have found out yet, ignoring it doesn’t make it go away. A conversation does, but it has to be age appropriate. You cannot burden them with your emotions or things they’re not ready to hear yet.
And just be that safe space. We know they need one to thrive. Amen.
If you’re not watching, I suggest you do so you could see Erin give her best friend the middle finger.
[Speaker 3]
She’s so bad. I literally like this. I had an awful medical experience this weekend and I wouldn’t let them.
I didn’t give details.
[Speaker 1]
I said you weren’t feeling good.
[Speaker 3]
I know.
[Speaker 1]
I know. I know. I know.
But it’s just because you are the one person that I know if nobody else gave a shit, you’d be there. You’d show up. You’d force your way in the door for me.
And it’s like, we’re all like, no out there.
[Speaker 2]
I know. You know what? Okay.
Awareness is the first step. And I, I did get better with that situation. You know, I did.
I, I was, I’m getting better. I’m growing.
[Speaker 1]
You are not that way for your kids.
[Speaker 2]
No, my God.
[Speaker 1]
No, you’re not like, I don’t need anyone. So you don’t need anyone. You are in there.
You are arms, elbows deep with whatever they’ve got going on. And so the point is that just because you’re not good at it for yourself, doesn’t mean you can’t try and be good at it for your kids.
[Speaker 2]
You know what? So true. And I always think like every parent I see in my practice is either they’re overcompensating big time on what they didn’t get, or they’re trying to make their child fit into their coping mechanisms that aren’t even really working for them either.
And the truth is, we all eventually find our, like our balance, you know, with that.
[Speaker 1]
And that’s okay. Just summed up my entire reality in parenting Bella. One is overcompensating.
One is like, I was fine. Do it like this. I talked all about overcompensation on the podcast with Nikki.
And then in a workshop I did yesterday or two days ago, because it happens, but it is a way to pull back, right? Like I always say, letting your boundaries down and spoiling your children is not going to make up for the divorce guilt. The only thing you can overcompensate on with your kids that is not going to fuck them up is your presence and your love and your intentionality.
[Speaker 2]
So true. I love that. It’s so hard.
[Speaker 1]
No, everything is like a double entendre, like a paradox. Everything contradicts itself. It really is so hard.
And I really am so glad that you can help us with this kind of conversation because it’s one of those things that, you know, the poor children of these families, of the Coldplay people are thrust into without any desire to be part of this experience.
[Speaker 2]
I think there will be some sort of special on this. You know, there has to be. There has to be.
[Speaker 1]
I saw somebody posted something like they should have Karen Reed play the scorned. I don’t know. It just, it’s going to be a Netflix special.
[Speaker 2]
I’m still loving all the memes, unfortunately. If that’s mean, I’m sorry, but it is.
[Speaker 1]
I am too. I’m just waiting, like constantly refreshing for Coldplay to make a statement. Like, is Chris Martin going to take responsibility for like the event that just.
I feel like something was said with him.
[Speaker 2]
Like, I think he said something, but you know, the CEO dude did make a statement. I saw that, but then people were saying it was fake.
[Speaker 1]
And I was hoping so because it wreaked a victim mentality. Let me see. Let me see.
[Speaker 2]
I’m so over how much I cannot trust anything I read. It is beyond like, I’m by the way, like just today, I’m moving back to using research to support almost everything I say at this point, because I just feel like there’s so much out there that you cannot trust, even though some things can be anecdotal.
[Speaker 1]
A tech, wait, there’s an article that says Astronomer, the company that Andy Byron works for responds to CEO affair allegations. I want to acknowledge them. Oh, there’s a fake statement that circulated on social.
That pretends to be his apology.
[Speaker 2]
Oh, it wasn’t even a good fake statement. Make it better.
[Speaker 1]
That was terrible.
[Speaker 2]
Like, make it like funny. Make it like awful. Like, why would you put one out?
That’s like trying to be what he would say. Oh, by the way, as a former HR person, there are serious implications for HR. I mean, that is like the biggest no, no, you know, it’s HR is so much.
It’s similar to like being a therapist. You know, that there are, there’s boundaries, clearly none for her. There are boundaries that have to exist.
It’s just like so wrong. I can’t.
[Speaker 1]
It’s the irony. That’s why, I mean, that’s why this is like made for social media viralness.
[Speaker 2]
We’re living our best lives this Friday because of it.
[Speaker 1]
I’m sorry to, I’m sorry that we’re enjoying this so much. But again, we can’t enjoy it too much because we never want to be on the other side of that.
[Speaker 2]
Listen, anyone affected by this, like in that circle of those people, you can reach out to me. I’d be happy to talk to you.
[Speaker 1]
And I, and, and again, my own clients who have dealt with finding out about their partner’s infidelity with a coworker, it’s brutal. It’s painful. Yes.
These people have come out the other side and been really grateful to have found out. And you know, it happened to my mom and she was a warrior because of it, but it still doesn’t make it hurt any less. And you’re doing a really brutal full job of having to carry yourself through it.
And also your children that is not lost on me. That is not lost on Aaron. And that’s what we’re here for is to support you through that.
[Speaker 2]
I’ll see you tomorrow night. Godspeed.
[Speaker 1]
Thank you for listening. Those of you who have made it this far in the episode, I am your host, Michelle Dempsey-Moltak. You can find Erin over on Instagram at it’s the conscious mom.
I will link all of her wonderful offerings, especially her recently published book, three minutes for mom that is garnering fame all over the place for being able to give moms what they finally need, but they’ve needed for so long, small, real easy to do pieces of information. You’re going to love it. I’ll link it here.
[Speaker 3]
Thank you. You tell them Eddie. I heard him in the background.
[Speaker 1]
Love you. Bye. Bye.
Someone’s at my door. I got to go.