Dr. Tali Berliner of Why Eating Disorders Are Rising – Episode 251 FULL TRANSCRIPT

Summarized Transcript of Episode 251 of The Moving On Method Podcast
Guest: Dr. Tali Berliner
Host: Michelle Dempsey-Multack

🎙️ Introduction: Why This Episode Matters
HOST (Michelle):
“A sad but true fact that no parent wants to hear is this—eating disorders are on the rise, and they’re showing up younger than ever.”
In this eye-opening conversation, Dr. Tali Berliner, a licensed psychologist and eating disorder specialist, joins us to unpack the complex intersection of divorce, emotional safety, and childhood disordered eating. From recognizing early warning signs to reshaping the way we model body image and control at home, this episode is packed with actionable insight for parents—especially co-parents—navigating this sensitive terrain.

📈 Why Are Eating Disorders Rising—And Why So Young?
HOST: What are the latest stats we should know?
GUEST (Tali Berliner):
• Post-pandemic data shows a spike in eating disorders—especially in children as young as 6 or 7.
• Stressful life events, like divorce, contribute significantly to the development of eating disorders.
• Home instability increases emotional vulnerability, leading children to seek control or comfort in food-related behaviors.
QUOTE: “Eating disorders give a false sense of control during deeply unstable times.” – Dr. Tali Berliner

🧠 What Triggers Disordered Eating in Co-Parenting Homes?
• Children in divorced or high-conflict homes experience instability that undermines emotional safety.
• Co-parenting introduces inconsistent routines, conflicting food rules, and emotionally charged environments.
• Emotional neglect or the absence of mealtime structure may intensify disordered patterns.
HOST: “Is it just about the food?”
GUEST: “No. It’s never just about the food. It’s about control, comfort, emotional voids—and yes, also media, cultural comments, and family dynamics.”

💬 How to Talk to Kids About Food and Body Image (Without Doing Harm)
Do’s:
• Use inclusive, nonjudgmental language around food (“all foods fit” model).
• Offer a variety of foods regularly—including sweets—so they don’t become a reward or punishment.
• Normalize body changes and avoid labeling weight or body shape.
Don’ts:
• Avoid using food as a behavioral tool (“no dessert if…”).
• Don’t talk about dieting, calories, or ‘being good’ with food in front of children.
• Never compare children’s bodies to others—even jokingly.
QUOTE: “Too many carrots isn’t good either. It’s about balance and consistency.” – Dr. Tali Berliner

🧠 When to Worry: Early Signs of Disordered Eating
• Emotional withdrawal or social isolation
• Sudden pickiness or refusal to eat former favorites
• Overfocus on food labels, portion control, or “clean” eating
• Excessive concern about appearance or comments like “am I fat?”
QUOTE: “Eating disorders don’t wait until high school anymore. We’re seeing kids as young as six who are already worried about their bodies.” – Dr. Tali Berliner

🏡 How to Create a Protective Environment—Even Across Two Homes
In Your Home:
• Prioritize emotional safety, unconditional support, and open communication.
• Create mealtime rituals that are consistent and pressure-free.
• Model intuitive eating and self-compassion.
Co-Parenting Tip:
You can’t control what happens in the other house. What you can control is consistency and care in yours. Over time, this serves as a protective buffer against conflicting messages.

🧠 Why Integration and Support Matter in Recovery
• True healing requires addressing co-occurring issues like anxiety, depression, OCD, and trauma.
• Parent coaching and play therapy are crucial for young children.
• Most girls (and many boys) in America experience some form of disordered eating, even if not diagnosed.
QUOTE: “The goal isn’t perfection—it’s reducing harm and fostering resilience.” – Dr. Tali Berliner

👦 What About Boys?
• Eating disorders in boys are rising rapidly due to social media and performance culture.
• Orthorexia, compulsive exercise, and muscle dysmorphia are becoming more common.
• Boys are now included in dual-gender treatment centers as the norm shifts.

🎓 Final Thoughts from Tali
• Normalize ALL body types.
• Watch your own self-talk—kids are listening.
• The earlier the intervention, the better the outcome.
QUOTE: “Your child will not develop an eating disorder under my watch. That’s my promise.” – Dr. Tali Berliner

📍 Connect with Dr. Tali Berliner
📩 Website & Contact: https://thepsychologygroup.com/dr-tali-berliner/
📍 Michelle Dempsey-Multack: https://michelledempsey.com
Learn about The Moving On Method® https://michelledempsey.com/shop-courses/
Get one-on-one coaching from Michelle: https://michelledempsey.com/coaching/
Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@TheMichelleDempsey
Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-moving-on-method-podcast/id1494940088
Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2aCCSiwavUlCqfdaleDxJ2?si=6a3f4dce03094f1c
Website – https://michelledempsey.com/
Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/michelle645
TikTok – https://www.tiktok.com/@themichelledempsey1
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mldempsey/

💡 Episode Themes (AI Semantic Tags)
eating disorder risk factors, co-parenting and mental health, early childhood disordered eating, emotional safety in divorce, intuitive eating, neurodivergent parenting support, body neutrality, food freedom parenting, disordered eating in boys, family systems psychology

Episode 251 The Moving On Method Podcast – FULL TRANSCRIPT

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
A sad but true fact that no parent wants to hear, but probably has to, is that eating disorders are on the rise for our children, both boys and girls, starting much younger than it used to. We used to traditionally think of eating disorders starting in high school and with a very specific type of child, maybe just a girl, but that’s not what we’re seeing anymore. And that’s why I’m so excited for you to meet today’s guest, Dr. Tali Berliner. She is an expert eating disorder therapist, and she also specialized in individual therapy for depression, anxiety, grief, and relationships. In this episode today, we’re going to be covering the complex issues surrounding body image and eating disorders, particularly in the context of co-parenting. We’ll explore the impact of divorce, cultural influences, and the role of emotional support in preventing these eating disorders.

And we’ll also highlight the of recognizing signs of disordered eating in children and the need for early intervention. Tali also shares with us the insights on the rising prevalence of eating disorders in boys and the co-occurrence of other mental health issues. We will end the conversation on a high note, I promise, specifically with ways that you can foster a supportive environment for your kids so this doesn’t become their reality.

Let’s meet Dr. Tali Berliner. I have wanted to talk about this topic forever, and I’m so glad it’s with you, because as you know, in the past, we have the luxury of being neighbors. I have ran some thoughts by you or some fears or concerns, and I know that there’s no one better for this conversation than you.

Tali, thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Tali Berliner
I’m so happy to be here. And like I told you privately, this is a bit out of my comfort zone, but talking about the topic and especially with you, someone I’m comfortable with, I’m really excited to be here.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Yeah. Let’s welcome Tali to the world of podcasting. This is new for her.

Social media, podcasts, everything. Yeah. Tali and I were talking a few weeks ago about this topic because it is so prevalent.

I’m a tween mom. I have a daughter who’s entering these prepubescent years. Her body’s changing.

She’s noticing stuff about her body. It is especially triggering to me because it is around her age where I guess I got the messaging from family or the world that my body wasn’t good enough and that it had to look a certain way in order for me to be accepted or liked or valued. I still struggle with that.

It was the cause of my years of eating disorder stuff. We just want to make sure as moms that we’re not putting that pressure on our girls. There is such a fine line.

Also, I heard recently that there is a higher incidence of eating disorders in girls and boys, but primarily girls, when there is a divorce. Is that true?

Dr. Tali Berliner
Most of the research is really coming out saying that a stressful life event and then, of course, a stressful life event within the home and where we see our home as our more stable, safe place definitely puts kids more at a vulnerability for mental illness, for sure. Within that, yes, eating disorders as well.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Go ahead. Give us a little statistical overview on eating disorders today in 2025.

Dr. Tali Berliner
The prevalence is rising. We really saw after COVID that eating disorders were on the rise. More and more research came out that being home during COVID in the pandemic was a breeding ground for eating disorders to be created and then also for eating disorders to become more severe.

People were home, stressed out, and that really led to a lot of more severity in our field. Then we started to see more research coming out about these stressful life events in the home being some sort of a trigger for more eating disorders to develop. Then through that, we saw research coming out about divorce specifically.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Okay. Can you tell me more about that? Because coincidentally with COVID, the divorce rates were like exploding through the roof, right?

Because now you’re stuck at home with this person you can’t run away from a couple of months ago when you were unhappy. Now we have a rise in divorce because of COVID, and now also you’re seeing a rise in eating disorders.

Dr. Tali Berliner
Oh my goodness.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Yes.

Dr. Tali Berliner
It’s a lot. It’s a lot. We were busy, us psychologists, us therapists.

We were very, very busy in COVID, unfortunately. I think with the divorce specifically, the home environment is meant to be such a safe space. I think when there is the stressful negative event that can be divorce, it leads to a lot of instability and for children specifically, they feel so out of control.

I think children in general feel out of control. I mean, it’s such a hard… It’s hard to be a kid.

Your parents are telling you what to do. Your teachers are telling you what to do. There’s already so much that is out of their control.

Then this event at home is furthering that lack of control. I think the eating disorder can come up and feel as… I like to say it’s a false sense of control because the eating disorder essentially has control, but it feels like it’s a way for these kids to exert control during a really unstable time or a way of finding comfort.

This eating disorder is the thing that I have for myself, my secret. It’s a way for me to find comfort and peace during a really hectic time.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
It’s so sad because I mean, I’m sure way back when I was a kid or a teen or even in college, I really believed that my eating disorder was just because I had family who told me I should lose weight.

Dr. Tali Berliner
I wanted to be thin.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Yeah, like you shouldn’t wear a tank top. You look thinner when you wear a t-shirt and a mom who was constantly in the gym and watching what she ate. Now that I’ve done some work and some healing, I do realize a lot of that was about the control and I am still very much a control freak.

So do you think it’s for some kids just about the control or is it also just this societal programming?

Dr. Tali Berliner
It’s a culmination of so many different things. Another piece in addition to the control or the comfort that food can bring to people is maybe the lack of emotional stability at home during the hectic time of a divorce process, maybe less meal time, more alone time, things like that. But certainly it’s the media, it’s the comments from family and others, and of course, the lack of control or perceived control that they get from the eating disorder and the lack of emotional maybe support or stability at that time.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
I’m like checking every box in my head, but it sounds so common sense, but common sense is not that common. We’re like, if the people who are supposed to love and protect you aren’t celebrating you as you are, and if they don’t consider you perfect in your body, regardless of its flaws, the child brain is like, okay, well, if they don’t think I’m good, nobody else is going to think I’m good. And it’s just such an unfortunate cycle that I think so many people unknowingly help their kids start.

Dr. Tali Berliner
That’s the hard part. And that’s the part for me where I’ve worked with eating disorders for so long at this point, but where my passion with coaching parents into helping protect their kids, or if their children already have eating disorders, how to help them through that process is most parents are not trying to say, I’m going to give myself and my kids eating disorders. I want them to feel bad about their bodies, or I don’t want to support them emotionally.

It’s done without knowing. The best of parents. And I always, I want to put the caveat out, especially to your viewers, you know, happy, healthy homes.

Kids are still coming out with eating disorders. You know, it’s not just, you know, homes that end up in divorce. It’s, it’s, there’s so many different things that lead to it.

But yes, I see parents and I’m working, I work with parents where they’re unknowingly doing things. And even to my friends, and I think I shared this with you when we were out, I I’m calling them out in, you know, in real time when I see things and I know that they’re good parents and they’re not trying to harm their children. But so much of what we’ve been through growing up, or so much of what we just aren’t aware of, we are unknowingly passing to our kids and causing harm.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Yeah. And, and a lot of it is so cultural. I know for my family, my, my mom’s side of the family is from South America where like, you know, Columbian women, like they celebrate their beauty or they like hide away if they don’t have any, you know, and since I was a little girl, it wasn’t like, Oh my God, congratulations on that good grade in school.

It was like, Oh, you lost weight. Thank God. You know, and I, we live in a very culturally saturated area, not just with the Latin culture, but also we live in a very cultural mixed cultures.

And I was at, I was at Target the other day and I bumped into an acquaintance, the friend, you know, whatever. And she was with her daughter, who is a few years younger than my own for context. Mine is 10 and a half.

I’d say hers was probably seven or eight. Okay. And with her daughter was within earshot and she was like, this one’s getting so fat.

I had to come buy new clothes. And now, right. I don’t know that, that her daughter heard it, but mine definitely did.

And that sparked a conversation that lasted days. And like, you know, my daughter’s body has changed. She’s not the little twig that she was a few years ago.

And I see all of her friends too. They’re all kind of like filling out. Right.

So right away. And I saw it happen in real time. Bella got in the car and was like, why did her mom call her fat?

She’s not fat. I’m bigger than her. Does that make me fat?

And I’m like, this is how it happens. Right. You cannot use the word.

Dr. Tali Berliner
Right. And even if you’re doing all the right things, which, you know, we have to speak consistently at our home and do what we can at home, they’re still going to get those messages from the outside, whether it’s media or friends or family members who are less educated or just have different values. And, you know, all you can do is provide that kind of loving supportive consistency and better messaging at home.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Yeah. I’ve been so, I feel like I’ve been so overboard on like the confidence and body positivity that now, like, I think I told you, Bella came home from school one day. I was like, mommy, I feel really bad for so-and-so.

And I’m like, why? What happened? Did something happen?

No, it’s just that she’s really skinny. And I was like, oh, that’s so sad. You know?

But then it’s like talking about someone’s body shape, not meaning anything. Like it’s meaningless. Anyway, all that to say, it’s really hard to be a girl mom in today’s day and age when there is social media.

And, you know, I’m guilty of it too. Like we strive to look good. I’ve never, ever talked about diet.

I’m feeling wrong with that. Right. So where’s the line?

Where’s the line? Because now, okay. For divorcing moms or single moms listening, you can’t control what goes on in the other parent’s home, right?

You can only control what goes on in yours. Our fear, our collective fear as divorced moms is, is what we’re doing enough to outweigh what might happen in the other house? Where is the fine line?

Like what, what are some do’s and don’ts?

Dr. Tali Berliner
The biggest do is unconditional emotional support in your own home. Unconditional support. They can creating an environment of openness where you are allowing your child to talk about anything.

And they know that you’re a safe place. That’s kind of my number one. Consistency is the next piece.

So whatever happens at the other home or at target or at school, consistency in your home is a really big deal. So they know that, um, okay. I, you know, mom doesn’t like that word or mom compliments my physical appearance and all these other attributes about me.

That’s, that’s consistent at home meal time when we can, that’s consistent at home. Um, at my mom’s house, I have fun snacks and I have, you know, fruits and vegetables and you know, that’s consistent. So kind of being able to model at your home, what you believe is important and believe will be more protective.

That is going to kind of be a protective layer for your child, no matter what they’re being exposed to elsewhere. Because even like I said, if it’s a two parent household and there was no divorce, they’re getting those messages elsewhere anyways. Right.

So my message would still be to have an open, supportive communication style with your child, have consistency and boundaries in your own home and model to them, you know, what, what your values are with regard to food and your body and all other attributes that are important.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
And I think it’s important to remember for our listeners that when we talk about eating disorders, we’re not just talking about starving. There are so many other ways that eating disorders present. And something I hear a lot of from my clients is not the starving, but the emotional eating.

And, you know, my child just seems to love food and can’t get enough. And, you know, I know that at that early age, it’s somewhat of a coping mechanism. Right.

So how do you draw the line there and say, because we want kids to trust their bodies and, and their hunger cues, but at the same time, we don’t want to see them use food as a coping mechanism that will lead to obesity and health problems later on.

Dr. Tali Berliner
Absolutely. And it’s a really important topic. And I’m glad that you bring that up, that it’s not just the anorexia that we saw in, in, in, that we see in most movies or in most, you know, media.

But there’s so many other presentations of eating disorders, but to, to your question about how do we manage that in our children? I, I have a few kind of points to go over, you know, I think first and foremost, it’s about allowing them to explore food freedom, you know, being able to offer a variety of different foods you know, try not saying no to the sweets but reminding them that sweets have a purpose. And I always, I think, depending on the age, we want to explain the utility of the food.

So sweets have a purpose. They’re yummy. They’re delicious.

They give us short bursts of energy. And, you know, if we eat too many of them, sometimes they can, you know, give us a tummy ache. So how do we balance that with other foods?

And what’s the, you know, what’s the purpose of other foods that we offer? What do you want to say?

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
I, when Bella was smaller, I would just say that it was going to like rot her teeth and give her cavities. And now every single time we leave the dentist and she doesn’t have a cavity, she’s like, you were wrong. I can have sugar.

And I’m like, wait, how do I walk this back?

Dr. Tali Berliner
And look, you got to do what you got to do, you know? And you’re not wrong. You’re not wrong in that.

But I think it’s about offering at your home, a variety of things and being able to explain the utility behind different foods. You know, the sweets and the fun snacks are good, but they’re not going to keep you full for very long. So how can we incorporate other foods?

I think also bringing an exercise in a fun way that is not demeaning and that is not, you know, okay, I saw my kid eat, you know, five donuts. We now need to go for a run. You know, that’s not a good mentality to communicate, but okay.

We all had, you know, a good dinner. We ate, you know, why don’t we go for a family walk or let’s play freeze dance in the living room? And being able to incorporate exercise for fun and for strength.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Yeah. That’s really important because we do, there’s a part of us as moms, you know, you don’t want your child to be rejected, especially because of physical appearance. And if you’re working so hard to make them feel loved and wonderful and confident, you know, it can all be undone by nasty comments at school or bullying.

And so we have to find a way to not also make them feel bullied, but also push them into healthier habits. It’s really, really hard.

Dr. Tali Berliner
It’s hard. And I think finding the right language that works for you and for your child is really difficult, but that’s really important. So being able to communicate in a way that isn’t demeaning or isn’t like you said, bullying in the way, you know, other people might be communicating to them.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Yeah. And this tween age, which I’m in with Bella and I know so many of my clients and listeners are kind of on this same journey with me at this point in time can be scary because like I said, the bodies do change and now you’re like, oh, but I’m of the belief that if you just let it be, kids eventually, like, first of all, they’re in a growing, like weird hormonal stage. And also they are going to decide for themselves at a certain point, how they want to feel and look.

And it’s this expectation we put on them that, I mean, I’m still healing from, I don’t know that I’ll ever be healed from. Yeah.

Dr. Tali Berliner
I think that that’s important. Allowing the process to unfold, you know, keeping an eye on things, of course, and doing what you can in a nonjudgmental and non-bullying way at home, but being able to just foster acceptance. Like, okay, this is where my child is now and how, how can they, you know, kind of, how can you ride the wave with them?

And when they get to a place where they’re uncomfortable, being able to really support them in a loving way and see kind of what they want to do with it. I also think what’s really important is what they view you doing at home and the way you talk about yourself or the way you talk about food will also kind of set the stage for kind of a positive, positive modeling and then role modeling for them.

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That’s no for all of me. Right. These things sort of become like food almost becomes weaponized.

It’s like the amount of sugar in both homes, like who can give less or who’s giving more. I also see that as a sneaky way to signal to the kids that if you can’t get it here, you got to go get it somewhere else. What I’ve tried doing, my house growing up was the house where there was no sweets.

My best friend and I always joke, our moms were like the two OG healthy, crunchy moms. There was no Whole Foods yet, but there was this weird smelly health food store in town. It was like the size of a closet.

They would take us there after school while everyone else was going for ice cream. At the time, there was no almond milk. It was like carob milk.

It would be sweetened. It was just terrible. Then we’d go to friends’ houses, and it was like no-holds-barred, Gushers, Ringdings, Hostess cupcakes, and no wonder.

As much as I don’t want my child eating those things for health reasons, preservatives and food coloring and all that shit, I still don’t want to make it feel forbidden. How do you do that? How do you allow it into your home, even if you think this stuff is straight garbage for my kids, so that they don’t go ravaging other people’s pantries?

Dr. Tali Berliner
It’s just what you said. It’s allowing it in the home because it’s not put on a pedestal anymore. For you and your friend, it was on a pedestal.

It was this, oh, when am I ever going to get the sugary cereal, the Frosted Flakes, the Fruit Loops, Ding Dongs, whatever. It was on a pedestal. If it’s in your home, it’s not on a pedestal.

They get it sometimes, and then sometimes they’re going to be like, no, I actually want something else because I do get that when my body wants it. It’s not so exciting. Over time, you’ll see that the kids who have that opportunity to have it more often, they don’t choose it all the time.

They have a more flexible, balanced relationship with food because it’s not so exciting.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Yeah, it’s so true because every time, and I mostly Instacart these days, but every time I do happen to have Bella with me when we’re food shopping and she sees a snack that makes me cringe and she’ll beg me for it, I’ll end up buying it, and it just sits in the pantry. She doesn’t even touch it.

Dr. Tali Berliner
Because you said yes, and because she probably has had it at your house before, because you say yes. I find it so important that you have to have those snacks in the house. I’m not saying it should be given all day, every day, but the exposure to it is going to make it less exciting and allow for the balance of all sorts of foods.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
That’s so important. Now, just like TV has taught us that an eating disorder is just anorexia, we know that it shows up in different ways. TV has also led us to believe that it’s showing up in high school.

You know, and you have said that these eating disorders are presenting earlier and earlier. Talk a little bit about the age ranges you’re seeing this happen.

Dr. Tali Berliner
We’re seeing really young. It hurts my heart, and it’s like as young as six and seven are really starting to talk about their bodies and being uncomfortable. Even as young as kindergarten, someone’s calling someone fat.

It’s 100% younger and younger and younger. I think a lot of it is social media. I think a lot of it is just the generation.

We have to be really careful as parents to not kind of put our stuff on them and to try and protect them with that consistency at home because it is coming younger and younger, and it’s heartbreaking.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
I imagine with the younger ones, that six, seven, eight-year-old range, a parent might unknowingly pass it off as, oh, my child’s just a picky eater. How do you tell at that point? What are some signs for parents to realize that this isn’t picky eating, that this could be indicative of a much larger problem?

Dr. Tali Berliner
So for me and in our field, we know, and you even mentioned it before, that eating disorders is not just about the way we look and the body. There’s always something going on underneath. So when we see that sort of picky eating, we want to kind of find out what else is going on.

So if the child is isolating a little bit more or is not wanting to play with friends or is coming back not doing well at school, not paying attention, the teacher starting to make some comments, something else is going on. And that might be more of a clue that this picky eating food stuff is part of a bigger problem. And maybe there is something more psychological and more of a disordered eating, eating disorder development going on.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
That’s scary. And so at that age, what do you, I mean, therapy, obviously?

Dr. Tali Berliner
I think at that point, they might be a little too young for like super traditional therapy. I think, you know, parents having parent coaching, potentially a dietician getting involved to coach as well, and maybe bringing the child in for some play therapy early on just to really talk about it. But you have to be really get the a knowledgeable dietician and therapist or psychologist who have the expertise with eating disorders and young kids.

Because, you know, I work with predominantly adults and parents, and you really need to know that kind of seven-year-old, eight-year-old mindset, and also the language that’s going to be helpful for them to communicate with their kids.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Now, I imagine anyone who is working with you, whose child is struggling with an eating disorder, their hope is let’s please get this figured out before they go off to college where things can inevitably become worse because the world gets scarier and feels less out of their control. How do you, I mean, is it possible that a child can be deep in this disordered eating mindset and can make a full quote-unquote recovery before they go off onto the next phase of their lives?

Dr. Tali Berliner
I say yes with a caveat. And my caveat is, is that majority of women in America struggle with some sort of disordered eating. I don’t say eating disorder, but some sort of disordered eating, you know, because it’s just the society that we live in.

So I say a recovery from an eating disorder, yes. But I think as a woman in America, you kind of always struggle with some sort of feeling or thought, but it’s about how severe it is. Is it interfering in your life?

Is it preventing you from having a happy and meaningful existence? So I say yes with that caveat that as an adult, it’s hard to be completely immune to everything that’s around.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Yeah. Yeah. Such a scary time to be a parent, but this advice is so, so helpful.

You are very, I noticed when we were talking the other night, you’re very passionate about this topic. Was this, and I’m sorry if this is too personal a question, did this passion of yours come from a personal place or you just found this to be something really interesting when you were in school?

Dr. Tali Berliner
So my, one of my best friends in high school, she was struggling with an eating disorder towards the end of high school and had to leave college freshman year early and be admitted to residential treatment center. And I visited her when I was home from UF and I, I was already an undergrad major in psychology and it started to really peak my interest. Um, and then by the time I was in grad school, I was, I had a job at that place.

She was at Renfrew and I ended up working at Renfrew where I visited her. It was my first grad school. And I was like, you know what, let me go back there.

Cause I had been interested in it and I kind of saw her through her illness as her friend. And I went back and got like a part-time job in grad school, continued to be interested in the topic and went off to do more of my training and ended up really solidifying my career and eating disorders.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
That, that, that’ll do it. I mean, I remember watching documentaries at some point, um, about that clinic or it was another outpatient something, or no, it was a, it was a residential.

Dr. Tali Berliner
Renfrew was on HBO. Yeah.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Yeah. So that was the one. And I was like, Oh my God.

And you know what I noticed? And this is probably a good question. There was a level of, I don’t know if it’s OCD.

Is it, is there usually another mental health disorder tied into this? Because there was like this insistence and this rigidity and the stubbornness. I mean, it was, it was more prevalent than the eating disorder itself.

Dr. Tali Berliner
There’s a lot of co-occurring mental illness with eating disorders. There’s generalized anxiety, OCD, panic disorder, depression, trauma, PTSD. There’s a lot of co-occurring and also substance abuse.

So yes, there is a lot of anxiety that is prevalent in eating disorder, people who are struggling with eating disorders. You’ll see that obsessiveness and then kind of the compulsion of either needing to eat or not eating or needing to exercise that is very similar and can be super overlapping in symptom presentation.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Yeah. Such a painful way to live. And having been really deep in that for so long, really peaking in my early thirties, it is such a dominating force in your life that like nothing else matters.

It’s all you can think about. And it was very much tied into my anxiety, which I didn’t know until after having to get help. But I’m wondering, is it like a chicken or egg thing?

Like which is going to present first? Would it be the anxiety or the OCD or does it all just kind of manifest together?

Dr. Tali Berliner
It depends. Sometimes we see the eating disorder thoughts come up and then they continue to develop in severity and it looks like more of anxiety and OCD. Other time, it’s anxiety that develops first.

And then a way of appeasing the anxiety is picking up on the food stuff. And then it’s sort of, they entangle each other and it’s a downward spiral.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
And I can’t not talk about the fact that this… We keep talking about girls, right? I mean, I’m a girl, mom.

I’m a girl. I get it. I see it amongst the daughters of clients that I have, but eating disorders are not just limited to females.

Dr. Tali Berliner
And I think I told you at our dinner that a lot of residential treatment centers are now becoming dual gender because of the rising prevalence in male eating disorders. I think it was… They’ve always existed in boys and in men, but with social media and more exposure, it’s rising.

And as a boy, mom, I see things with my kids as well, kind of questioning food labels, even at this age or mom, did I eat too much? What does this mean? And I’m like, ah, or can I eat the sweets?

But can I eat that? So it starts with boys too. And even some of their friends or my nephews, I see things as well.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
With boys, is it more restriction or is it like orthorexia? What is it more with boys?

Dr. Tali Berliner
So with boys, it’s definitely, I think, starts a lot with the picky eating. Boys can be really picky, but then it kind of transfers to the whole general span of disordered eating. I think what we see in older males, teens, 20s, 30s, et cetera, is more of that orthorexia or the need to be strong and muscular and taking supplements and making sure you’re working out and eating enough protein and things like that, getting to that kind of muscle mass that is more stereotypical for men.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Oh my God. I work out at a gym. I have a trainer at this one gym where the whole gym caters to the competition industry, men and women who literally live their lives on specific rigid diets in order to look a certain way to compete.

And I hear the way they talk about every grain of rice has to be weighed. And then they’re all huge on social media too, right? Everyone’s loving their shit because they’re out there winning these competitions and also talking about, you can’t eat bananas because they have too much sugar.

And this is the messaging that even our boys are getting.

Dr. Tali Berliner
The boys are getting. You have to be the most athletic, the most muscular, the most protein. Those are messages that they’re seeing in their TV shows, the more boy-focused TV shows.

They’re seeing the big muscles and the superheroes. And that creates messaging for them just in the way the skinny princesses and all of those characters are sending messages to our kids too, the girls too.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Yeah. Well, I do feel in some ways really grateful for, I think when I was already too far gone into my eating disordered mindset in high school, probably around the middle of high school, all of a sudden J-Lo became famous and Beyonce became famous. And then it was like, we were putting booties and thickness on the map.

Not that they’re big by any means, but at the time we were calling Britney Spears fat when she gained 10 pounds. We grew up in a really rough time, us late 30 to early 40 year olds of scrutinizing every celebrity for gaining weight. And we look back and they were so thin, but there was a turning point I think, where now we were idolizing that sort of like curvaceous, big booty, bootylicious type of thing.

And in some ways I think that still has stuck in the media and the music industry, which gives me like a lot of relief because I tell Bella how back when I was a kid, that was not a thing at all. And I think it’s normalized different body shapes a lot or am I just being too hopeful?

Dr. Tali Berliner
I think we need more of it. We need celebration of so many more body types than the 90s models that we grew up watching. The Calvin Klein models that we saw, that was the norm for us as what to idealize.

I do think the music industry does a better job, but we need to keep doing it. We need to normalize. I think when we grew up, there was a wasn’t it called like 135 and you could only be- Five, seven, nine.

Five, seven, nine. So you could only be those sizes. What is that?

That’s such a, excuse me, my fuck.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
And I was never able to shop there. And I remember being really jealous, not to mention, looking back, I wanted to, because I couldn’t, this stuff was hideous. But anyway, point being is we considered plus size back then.

I remember watching Top Model and telling these beautiful size four women that they were too big. They were too big. And it’s no wonder that coupled with the messaging at home that so many of us now at our age struggle, but that’s why it’s so important to be having these conversations so we don’t pass the cycle onto our kids.

Dr. Tali Berliner
It’s, God. And that’s why the most important thing I try to tell friends and clients is have that proper, proper messaging at home. Being able to have that consistent, loving, supportive, and balanced message.

Like the Cheetos are good, but the carrots are good. And too much of anything isn’t good. So too many carrots isn’t good.

Being able to have that consistent, balanced messaging so that we aren’t perpetuating those negative patterns that are going to lead to more disordered eating habits. Yeah.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
Well, this was really, really very insightful. Tali, thank you so much for being here. I’m obviously going to link all your information in the show notes, but for anyone listening, where can they find you if they have more questions about helping themselves or their own kids through the unfortunate world of disordered eating?

Dr. Tali Berliner
Yeah. Well, thank you for having me and pushing me out of my comfort zone. I did it.

We did it. My website is the best place email to get in touch with me. And I’m happy to help people get connected to the right resources, even if I’m not the right fit.

I feel so, so passionate about this topic and helping parents and kids abstain and stay away from eating disorders. I tell my friends, your children will not have eating disorders under my watch. So that’s what I hope for our kids and for all of us.

Michelle Dempsey-Multack
I love that. I love that. And parents, if you’re listening and you have already picked up on these behaviors from your kids, please do not take that as an indication of your being a bad parent.

There is so much that is out of our control and children are just trying the best they can to get through every day and feel comfort. So instead of blaming or shaming yourself, now you just use this as awareness and now you have the tools and know what to do. And of course, if you have any other questions, reach out to Tali or you can reach out to me.

We are at info at momsmovingon.com. Thank you for being here on the Moving On Method and helping to make a difference for your kids. We’ll see you next time.