Host: Michelle
Guest: Whitney Goodman, LMFT – Author of Toxic Positivity and Licensed Therapist
HOST (Michelle):
Welcome back to Moving On Method, where we dive into the complexities of relationships, boundaries, and healing. Today’s episode is a big one, we’re talking about parentification, how it can cause emotional estrangement, and what we can do about it. If you’ve ever felt like you were “the parent” in your family growing up, this episode will feel like validation, and offer a roadmap forward.
What is Parentification?
GUEST (Whitney Goodman):
Parentification is when a child is put in the role of caretaker for their parent, emotionally, physically, or both. This isn’t just helping around the house; it’s a reversal of roles where the child’s emotional needs take a backseat.
Key markers of parentification:
- Feeling responsible for a parent’s emotions or well-being
- Being the mediator or “therapist” in the household
- Losing access to a typical childhood experience
- Struggling with guilt when establishing boundaries as an adult
QUOTE: “Parentified children grow up fast, and often feel like they never got to be kids.” – Whitney Goodman
How Does Parentification Impact Adult Relationships?
HOST (Michelle):
So many adult children of enmeshed families struggle with boundaries. They feel responsible for their parents’ happiness and carry that into romantic or professional dynamics.
GUEST (Whitney):
Exactly. Parentified adults may:
- Attract partners who are emotionally unavailable
- Over-function in relationships or workplaces
- Confuse self-worth with utility or helpfulness
- Fear rejection if they say no or step back
QUOTE: “If your value is tied to caretaking, stepping away can feel like disappearing.” – Whitney Goodman
How Do You Set Boundaries Without Shame?
HOST (Michelle):
Boundaries are a healing act. But how do we navigate the guilt?
GUEST (Whitney):
The guilt is a sign the old pattern is breaking. You’re not doing something wrong—you’re doing something different. That’s why it feels unfamiliar.
Steps for setting boundaries when you’re parentified:
- Start with small no’s, build the muscle
- Reframe guilt as growth
- Use scripts like: “I’m not available for that, but I care about you.”
- Remind yourself: your needs matter too
QUOTE: “You’re allowed to choose yourself. That doesn’t make you cruel, it makes you conscious.” – Michelle
What If Estrangement Becomes Necessary?
HOST (Michelle):
Let’s talk about the hard part, estrangement. Sometimes, despite our efforts, parents don’t respect our limits.
GUEST (Whitney):
It’s heartbreaking, but sometimes necessary. Estrangement isn’t about punishment, it’s about safety, healing, and peace.
If you’re considering estrangement:
- Seek support (therapy, support groups, peer stories)
- Clarify your why
- Accept grief and relief can coexist
- Know reconciliation is not always the goal
QUOTE: “You can love someone and still not be able to be in contact with them.” – Whitney Goodman
Terminology and Concepts Covered
- Parentification
- Emotional Labor in Families
- Boundaries vs. Estrangement
- Reparenting Yourself
- Toxic Loyalty and Family Myths
Natural Language Q&A Structure
Q: What’s the difference between helping and being parentified?
A: Helping is age-appropriate and guided by support. Parentification is a chronic reversal of care roles where the child becomes the emotional or logistical anchor for the parent.
Q: Can I heal from this without going no contact?
A: Yes, but it requires clear boundaries, emotional distancing, and often a lot of inner reparenting work.
Raw Transcript
Michelle: I’m so happy you’re joining me today for this conversation because with us, we have Whitney Goodman, who is a psychotherapist. She is known for her work on social media as Sit With Wit, and I have followed her for so long. She’s been able to help me not just professionally, but personally also, as she covers many, many different topics ranging from estrangement, parentification, and how our childhoods really impact our adult relationships with our parents.
Now, in this conversation, we’re gonna explore the complexities of estrangement, different parenting styles, and the impact of our childhood experiences on adult relationships, which if you are a divorcing parent or a divorced parent, this is something you likely think about often. We’re also gonna discuss the importance of understanding what leads to estrangement and the role of parenting in shaping children’s emotional health, and the challenges faced by parents navigating divorce and co-parenting, because obviously, if you’re listening to this, this isn’t a reality you wanna have to face one day, right? Our conversation will emphasize the need for validating our children’s feelings, how to avoid parentification, and how to create safe and open spaces for communication so that our children can grow up and say, they don’t wanna be estranged from us.
They were so protected and they felt so loved. So as we talk more about parentification, you’ll understand how it leads to unhealthy dynamics between parents and children and can often lead to estrangement. We want you to create a safe and stable environment, and I’m so excited for you to meet the person that can help us do this most with our children, Whitney Goodman, esteemed author, psychotherapist, such a knowledgeable human.
Let’s get to it. And now, here she is. Whitney, thank you so much for being here.
Whitney: Thank you for having me. I mean, this means a lot to me, not just professionally to have this conversation because I think it’s so important, but personally, how much you’ve helped me in my own journey towards giving myself grace and understanding what led to my own estrangement from a parent, which in a lot of ways wasn’t my fault, but nonetheless still has, well, wasn’t my fault, but it happened before I wanted it to. And so growing up as a child with a parent who, for lack of a better word, didn’t really want anything to do with them and then having to grow up hearing, but he’s your dad or forgiveness is possible and all these types of things that you speak about so clearly has made me feel so much more seen and validated.
But it begs the larger question because, and I’m sure you see this in your practice too, the majority of clients that I have who are divorcing or dealing with co-parenting issues grew up in a situation that either led to estrangement or they’ve been abandoned by a parent. And now it’s kind of like, you’re all over the place. You don’t want your fears to drive your parenting, but it’s hard to separate your emotions.
And there’s just so much to unpack. So first and foremost, let’s talk about why estrangement seems to be such a big thing right now.
Whitney: Yeah, you know, it’s interesting. I’m not really of the belief that it’s necessarily increasing at this rapid frequency. Like I think some people believe, I think we’re talking about it a lot more, especially because the generation of people that are talking about it are very comfortable on the internet and they’re a lot more comfortable sharing their feelings on the internet.
And I think that’s new. That’s something that we didn’t necessarily see with the boomer generation or even Gen X where you wouldn’t go online and like air your dirty laundry for lack of a better word. I think people used to become estranged all the time.
It just played out differently. You know, you would just call once every six months or not come home for the holidays. And now with cell phones, email, social media, there’s so many different ways to keep in touch that I find that a lot of people are having to set these like stricter, more forceful boundaries of like, no, I don’t want you in my life because there’s so many ways for people to contact you.
Michelle: Right, yeah, that is true. And I think also in tandem with people airing their dirty laundry and just talking about it more, you have people having now this awareness, everyone’s going to therapy and they understand how their childhoods have impacted their adult lives. And so it seems for many that it’s like, I blame my parents.
I don’t want anything to do with them anymore. And your message is not that, which I love. It’s very clear.
It’s like, you know, loving detachment. Like this happened, maybe they did the best they could have done and it hurt. And it doesn’t mean like a death sentence on the relationship.
And I love how you don’t make it so cut and dry, but I’m wondering what are some themes that you’re seeing and what does it take for an adult? What point do they get to in their lives where they realize, you know what, I’m done?
Whitney: Yeah, the majority of people that I talk to, they’re not actually like rehashing the past with their parent that much. It’s actually about stuff that’s in the present that the parent will not stop doing. And I know you brought up your story, which I think is more of a story of abandonment than it being like an adult who said, I don’t want you in my life.
And that’s something that I’ve noticed is there’s these two very distinct groups. There are adults who have very overbearing, boundary-violating, hovering types of parents that they have to physically cut off. And then there are adults who have parents who are actually quite distant, ambivalent, and not even really interested in maintaining the relationship.
And in those situations, I do see some adults reclaim their power by saying, okay, fine, I don’t want you in my life. But really, they didn’t even need to say that because the parent isn’t in their life. And there’s a big lack of effort on behalf of that parent.
And across both of those groups, I think I see emotional immaturity, a lack of perspective-taking, an inability to discuss how we can impact one another in relationships as being sort of at the heart of why these adults can’t have relationships with their parents.
Michelle: Yeah, those are two very separate things. And I’m glad you clarified that because abandonment, when it happens, I guess it frees you of this guilt of that the non-boundary parent is gonna put on you when they’re putting all this pressure on you. But at the same time, it leaves you with this damage and wounds that are just, that could be a whole nother podcast.
But I think in both cases, if you’ve had an upbringing where you’ve experienced abandonment at the hands of a parent, or you grew up in a home where it was this narcissistic parenting, like what I say goes, your feelings don’t matter, I feel like both of those populations end up in a place where they find themselves repeating cycles in their marital relationships. And I’m wondering if you see this being prevalent in your practice, and if it’s kind of like the aha moment for people.
Whitney: Yeah, a lot of people tell me that they realize their childhood was a problem when they have children, and they see, I would never want my child to live through my childhood. And I think that can be a really eye-opening question you can ask yourself is like, would you want your kid to have your childhood? And if you’re, right, and if your immediate answer is like, oh God, no, then there’s probably something to look at there, right?
There’s probably something painful. And there are some people that would say like, well, I wouldn’t want them to have some parts of it, but others were good and everyone kind of exists on a spectrum. But for those people that are like, hell no, I would never want my kid to have my childhood, there’s something to look into there.
But I sometimes find that the opposite actually happens, like some people will repeat with no awareness. Others will let the pendulum swing completely to the other side and say, I don’t want my kid’s childhood to be anything like mine, so I’m gonna do everything the opposite. And they become- You’re bringing this up because this is a reality for many people.
Totally, and that is sometimes not good, right?
Michelle: Well, what I found is if you’ve like, for myself personally, and I’ll admit this, yes, I’m like of the opinion that my daughter’s childhood should be the complete opposite of mine was, and mine on both ends, there was, with both parents, emotional neglect, not because, well, on one hand, because I was abandoned, but on the other, it was just not knowing what children needed at that point in time to have their emotions cared for and validated, but it’s like we can create this self-fulfilling prophecy where like all of my daughter’s emotions are so important and so big, and if I’m not careful, I’m rushing to fix them instead of supporting her and them, which is kind of doing the same thing.
Yeah, yeah, or like making the assumption
Whitney: that your child needs all the things that you needed as a child, and sort of assuming like, because I lacked in all these ways, they also lack, and I think that can get in the way of not getting to know your unique child and what they need from you, and also just the context of the times in which you’re raising them are completely different than when one of us was being raised, you know?
Michelle: I know, I used to live in such fear of like, you know, what is my daughter gonna grow up and say in therapy about me one day, and my therapist pointed out to me, well, you know what? What we can gather so far is that her experience in her childhood is vastly different than what yours was, and she has something that you didn’t have, which is you and the knowledge and the awareness and like the ability to meet her where she’s at, and so that was the first time where I took a step back and thought, okay, history may not repeat itself here, but nonetheless, kids grow up and have their own stories and versions of how their childhoods felt, and I think that’s what’s so scary for people who are looking back on their childhoods with a lot of resentment.
Whitney: Yeah, I guess what I do realize though is that when you and I are having this conversation, you’re having the awareness already of like, she’s gonna have her own thoughts, feelings, and beliefs about her childhood. A lot of the parents that I speak to or the parents of these adults that I work with, they don’t believe that their kids can have their own perspective. That’s really at the core of this is like, the parents’ perspective is the only one that exists.
Their memories are the only correct ones, and so to even have a belief that like, my kid is their own person who could have their own feelings about this, you’re already like ahead.
Michelle: Oh, yeah, I’m ahead, but also it doesn’t do away with like the fear, right? I, it wasn’t until my early thirties where I really started therapy and exploring the impact of my childhood on my adult life, and that I think starting that process in tandem with becoming a mom, it’s like, it’s very hard. And that’s why you had a podcast that really spoke to me, Parenting Without a Roadmap, in the sense that you weren’t given the childhood that you want your child to have.
So yeah, what do you do? You don’t wanna overcompensate and swing the pendulum the other way and sort of create this like other disastrous environment. So what is the right thing to do here?
Because there are many, I would say all co-parents who are dealing with somebody either toxic or who counter parents, there’s this big fear of like, am I doing it right? Will my child hate me one day? What do I do?
Whitney: Yeah, I think the Parenting Without a Roadmap really goes back to this idea that there are people out there who don’t have parental figures or even any members of their family to look to and say, I want a parent like them. And so there might be someone listening to this who’s like, I look around my entire family and I don’t have a single person that I admire as a parent. And that’s a scary position to be in because you’re forced to go out and figure out what kind of parent you wanna be on your own.
And then of course, we all know that you can decide to have a child with someone who changes a lot, becomes a very different person, lies, manipulates, whatever it is. And now you’re up against an even steeper climb of like, how do I balance out what they are contributing to this with the kind of parent that I would like to be and that’s scary. So yeah, this is where like, I think every parent has to be able to develop the confidence in themselves to say, I get to create this roadmap, decide what it looks like.
I can abandon everything that I’ve been taught up to this point, the way I was raised and I can create something that’s unique for my situation. And you speak to so many families that are in different types of situations, not just this like, two parents raising two kids in a house and it doesn’t always go that way. That we have to be like dynamic, I think with the roadmap and be open to taking detours and getting new influence.
Michelle: Yeah, and it’s hard for a divorcing mom, I think, because if she is the one who has chosen to leave in a heterodynamic, there has been years of just kind of like keeping the peace and maybe complying with the other person’s parenting beliefs or styles or tactics just to avoid conflict. And so now you’re left with like, taking it into your own hands and you don’t know what to do. And I think the underlying theme for anybody is I just don’t want my child to resent me.
That resentment is, I mean, I hate to say it, but like your kids are gonna resent you for something, but they never want it to be because of the contrast between how the other parent is parenting and how they’re trying to parent.
Whitney: Yeah, and I think parents in every type of like family constellation, they have different styles, right? Like my husband and I have different parenting styles and kids get good things from both people. Obviously, there are some situations where they’re not getting much good from certain types of parenting that I think we’ve become so focused on like making up for the other parent, balancing the other parent, making sure like all the focus is on them instead of trying to really look at yourself and what kind of parent do you want to be?
How do you want to show up? How do you want to form that attachment and that bond with your child so that they can feel that with you? And I think a lot of kids really do, the adults that I work with, they come to see that other parent for what they were in the end.
Michelle: They do see it. I think that’s a very valid point and you need to say that again because I preach this all the time. Like if you have enough faith in your own parenting abilities and the connection that you have with your child that you’re not gonna form if you’re constantly focused on what the other parent is doing or not doing.
Everyone, I mean, kids grow up really fast. They have a lot more adulthood than childhood and they see what’s what and who’s who and ultimately it’ll be in their hands to decide what their perspective is going to be but that’s a hard thing to trust. I think when your kids are little and it feels like they’re always gonna be little and not understand the world.
Whitney: Yeah, yeah, 100%. I can share that. I just got done interviewing a bunch of adults who are estranged from their parents and one of the questions I asked them was, does your estranged parent ever accuse your other parent of trying to turn you against them?
And they would always say, yeah, they don’t have a relationship with their dad but their dad would always say, your mom turned you against me and this adult would always be like, well, no, my dad didn’t treat me well. My dad was not showing up and he would always think it was my mom doing it but really, I didn’t like his behavior. I’m gonna cry.
It’s, yeah. Sorry, I didn’t hear that. Yeah, and it’s so, I have to tell you that these adults, when they see it, right?
They see it for what it is and they see the behavior and I think that your kids know when you’re showing up for them and when you’re trying and yes, they can’t always relay that when they’re three, four, five years old but they see it later.
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And I don’t think anybody intentionally tries to parentify their child. And you did something on the relationship between Ginny and Georgia in the TV show, which like, it made me feel all the feels because I did like a whole thesis on it for my marriage and family therapy program about this enmeshment and all of that. Can you speak to ways that you see parents unintentionally parentifying their children?
Whitney: Yeah, I think especially when we’re talking about divorce or marital issues, kids often become like the mini therapist or the surrogate parent, right? They get pulled into this role of like, I’m going to share all of my feelings with you and I’m gonna ask you for advice and maybe I talk poorly about the other parent or I involve you in details with the court case. And I think that there are some kids that their temperament and their personality makes them very good at this.
And it becomes this cycle, right? Totally, yeah, 100%. And so like, you then develop this special relationship with your parent too as a kid that feels very good.
And sometimes the kids then, they want more of it even because they’re like, look, mom’s sharing with me, she trusts me. And it can be this very conflicting relationship of like, this feels heavy, I don’t like it, I can’t handle it, but I also really like that my mom wants to tell me all this stuff and I feel close to her. And maybe even knowing all the information feels kind of safe to me because when I don’t know what’s going on with my parents, I feel more afraid that you get into this cycle where I think some parents, because of the way their child is acting, they don’t see it as being a bad thing or like they’re doing any harm because it feels good between the two of them.
But a lot of times these adults that I talk to, they look back later and they’re like, gosh, why do I not feel close to my parent? Why do I feel like my mom is my kid? I feel very burdened by her.
And it’s because you’ve been doing this for decades, and you’ve developed this dynamic. And I don’t think a lot of these parents are seeking to do this. I actually think a lot of people feel very close when they do this and it feels kind of good.
Michelle: Yeah, I mean, I see it as a trauma bond. It’s almost like connecting on the thing that hurt both of you. And this very much happened to me as a child at the hands of my mom, who I love and I adore.
But I also had to work through the fact that we were just kind of going through this together. This was her first time being a mom and being jilted and being left with nothing. And so I don’t blame her for it.
I’d be lying if I said it didn’t cause a lot of resentment, but also I didn’t have my dad to blame because he kind of just exited stage left. But my fear is that, and what I work with parents on is that, yes, there is typically a child in a multiple child home. And especially if it’s this only child that is going to be this person.
I’ve had clients say to me, oh, my daughter’s the best. She’s my rock. She keeps me sane.
And I’m like, oh, and there’s this thought that’s like, my children deserve to know the truth. And I try to paint the picture for them long-term how if nothing more, this robs them of their ability to be a kid, right? Like there’s so much a kid does not need to know.
But where is the line between sharing too much and parentifying your child, putting them in a position of now having to worry about your feelings and giving honest, appropriate truths that they don’t have to, but also signaling to them, like, I’ve got this. You don’t have to worry about me.
Whitney: Yeah, it’s a great question. I think that obviously this depends on the age of the child, but something that I would look out for is like, there are behaviors that your kids are seeing. Like if you’re in a home where one spouse is constantly yelling at the other and belittling them and picking on them, like, and your kids are witnessing it, I think you have to be very careful not to like, try to explain and rationalize those behaviors, right?
Of like, oh, well, that’s just what people do when they’re tired and they love us. But sometimes they just yell because I think that can get interpreted as like, oh, well, that’s just what people do. And then they start dating people like that, et cetera, as like a simplified version of that.
Right? Now, there are things that your kids like, aren’t privy to that they don’t really need to know about and that are just going to confuse them and complicate things more, like maybe specific details about what’s going on between the two of you. I think kids need to know things that impact them.
If their schedule is gonna change, if they’re going to be at someone else’s house, if the parents aren’t gonna be living together, like these are things that can be explained to them when they need to know them and in the right way without emotionally dumping on them and adding the color of all of your feelings to it. Yes.
Michelle: Yes. And I would back that up with, you’re human, right? Every once in a while.
100%. You’re gonna have feelings that you share or your child picks up on. What is the right messaging to them at that point after they’ve seen you cry or they know you’re upset about something that happened with the other parent?
What do you say in that situation?
Whitney: I think that it’s really important to normalize that what’s going on is hard. You want your kids to be able to also be upset and talk about these things. And if they see you modeling that, that’s not a bad thing.
What I think you really wanna make sure they understand, and I hear you say this a lot, is that your feelings are not for them to fix or take care of. So reminding them that even though you’re showing it, you’re gonna be okay. You can even tell them, I have friends I can talk to.
You don’t have to worry about mom. I have a therapist. Whatever it is that you are doing to manage your own feelings and also letting them know that you’re there to help them.
That’s the way it goes. And so if they’re having any questions or concerns, they can always talk to you.
Michelle: I love that. And I think it needs to be, it’s not something that you say once. I think it has to be something that’s brought up often in these moments where there’s a light shining on the obvious, the discomfort.
I think we grew up in an age of when, at least for me, it was like, oh, you’re fine. Everything’s fine. Don’t worry about it.
For sure. The denial of my reality was so strong that I grew up not being able to trust myself. And even still, it’s like my indecisiveness.
I’m like, oh, I know where that came from. But we want our kids to be able to feel safe, but also not have to fill in the blanks with what’s actually going on here. So I do feel like we’re always walking a fine line.
And that fine line is what leads so many of us to worry, am I putting too much on them? Will they resent me? Will we end up estranged?
And that’s every well-intentioned parent’s biggest fear, I think. I think the ones who aren’t worried about it are the ones probably who are gonna face it more, but, you know.
Whitney: Yeah, it’s like, what’s that line? I’m always telling people, like, bad parents don’t worry about being bad parents. Like, they don’t think about it.
Michelle: Yeah, you don’t think about it. Okay, so going back to something you said, when one parent is always yelling at the other. That was, a lot of questions we got were related to this, how do I not make my child mad at me when I’m constantly trying to do the right thing, the other one is not?
Am I denying their reality by continuing to support the relationship? Should I be having conversations? Like, how do you handle that?
You know, because you don’t wanna say like, oh, this is fine, this is normal. But you also don’t wanna run the risk of bad mouthing the parent to the point where your child will look at it as alienation. So what do you say in those situations?
Like, I’ll give you an example. Mommy, Daddy said that you are, I don’t know, bad parent and you don’t let him see me as much as he wants to. Now, knee-jerk reaction is like, tell that mother.
Yeah, exactly. Read the parenting plan, but you don’t wanna do that.
Whitney: Yeah, I think that in these moments, it is important to try to meet your kid where they’re at, right? So you can say something like, of course I want you to have a relationship with your dad, your dad is important to you, you having a relationship with your dad is important to me, whatever it is. It’s also okay to ask the kids questions, like, do you agree with that?
Do you feel that way? Depending on their age, like, do you feel like you get to see your dad enough? I think getting a sense of their feelings about what they’re being told is important.
Michelle: I’ve had to work a lot with clients on this. I know you know Bill Eddy, but he always talks about the four big skills for kids, critical thinking skills. So like this line of questioning that becomes so important, like, well, has there been a time where you wanted to see daddy where I didn’t let you?
Let’s talk about that, because if there was, I wanna hear about it. Just opening up the door for that. There’s so much that these kids go through that we wanna handle so carefully.
So what are some ways that you would suggest to, let’s say a newly divorcing parent who’s terrified of doing the wrong thing and ending up the one estranged, right? Like maybe they are from their own parents or parents. What are some ways to ensure that safe, secure connection and hopefully not run into these issues in adulthood later on?
Whitney: Yeah, let your kid have their experience and it may not line up with yours and it might be the most triggering, overwhelming thing to hear. I mean, your kid could say to you like, I hate that you got divorced. You should have stayed with your dad and maybe their dad was being abusive to you and that feels horrible to hear.
And you have to get so comfortable with being like, that is their reality. It would have been nice for them to keep living how they were living. Maybe we did such a good job at hiding the reality of what was going on from them that that felt good to them.
And this has rocked their world. And I think you have to look at all these moments as temporary. The child is adjusting, they’re moving forward and can you just like walk with them on it?
And it’s hard, it’s so hard, like you said, not to be like, oh my gosh, are you kidding me? Look at what I’ve done for you. I got us out of that house, whatever it is.
But that is the number one thing that I hear from estranged adults is that their parent truly cannot see their reality. We were talking about this in a group today that it’s like, your parent keeps telling you the sky is purple and the only way you can have a relationship with them is if you lie and say the sky is purple too. So your kids might have a totally different perspective on what’s going on than you do and you have to learn to sit with it.
Michelle: That’s incredibly triggering and especially, I know you talk a lot about narcissistic parenting. Is this something that you would classify as being a result of that? A narcissistic parent just not being able to see or acknowledge the feelings of somebody else unless they align with their own?
Whitney: Yeah, that can definitely be a part of that. I think especially in like a narcissistic family system where people are all kind of rallying around this narcissistic figure, that that has always been the MO of the family, keep the peace by agreeing with this person. And once that all falls apart, it’s very difficult.
And the children can often be collateral damage in that and they agree to put on the show that everyone else has been doing in the family. It’s hard to break out of that.
Michelle: It is so hard to break out of that. And it’s even harder when you see your child, like maybe you’ve left a marriage because of that and now your child is left in having to deal with it and is suffering in all the same ways you were, but like the parenting plan says they have to be with them. That’s a very triggering reality in itself.
I see a lot of that in your work.
Whitney: I think that that is one of the hardest situations to be in as a parent, to have no control over your child’s suffering in that way, especially when we’re talking about some of this more insidious emotional abuse, psychological abuse that can happen in these narcissistic families that you can’t really like bring to a judge or talk about in a certain way because it’s so difficult to demonstrate the damages
Michelle: it’s very hard. Yeah, yeah. And it’s almost like that’s where you have to have the faith in your own parenting abilities and the fact that eventually, even though it’s gonna be really uncomfortable and painful for a while, your child will hopefully see who’s who and what’s what.
Now, do you ever see estranged adults who are estranged because they felt their parent didn’t protect them enough? Like maybe they weren’t turning them against the other parent, but then they weren’t also helping them realize this isn’t safe, this isn’t healthy.
Whitney: Yeah, I’ve been hearing that a lot more lately that a lot of adults realizing that their safer parent was actually putting them in harm’s way a lot. And I have a lot of difficulty kind of like deconstructing this because I think everyone in these systems is a victim, right? If we have a woman, let’s say, that is a victim of domestic violence and her husband is hurting her and there’s children in the home and the children are also being abused by the husband.
The partner is a victim and she’s also the person, the only other person that can protect those kids, right? And so this is where for those adults, when they grow up, it gets really dicey because it’s like, I see my mom as a victim, I see why she couldn’t leave, I also feel like she didn’t protect me and it can be so hard to wrap your head around all of that nuance that’s loaded up in that family.
Michelle: Correct, correct. Well, this is why I tell parents that even though you can’t control what goes on in the other home, even if it’s terrible for your kids, you have modeled at least that it is not a healthy way to grow up by leaving. And again, it’s a short term discomfort that hopefully will lead to an empowerment in the child to be able to say, no more, not me.
Are you seeing, I mean, I know I personally see and the family court system sees a lot of preteen girls, especially wanting to separate themselves from a parent. Like, I mean, it reminds me of myself, it happened for me at 12, but they don’t like the way this person is treating them, they don’t like the way they feel around this person and they’re realizing this at a young age. Do you see this with kids also?
Because it’s so painful to watch.
Whitney: That’s very interesting. You know, I definitely, the vast majority of the people I talk with are like finalizing the ending of that relationship with their parents sometime between like 29 and 35, I think is like the window. But a lot of them have these moments from childhood, adolescence, like you’re speaking about, where they started to realize what this person was actually like.
And I think when you start to interact more with peers outside of the home and see how other families act, this is a big wake up call for a lot of people. I always ask them, like, when did you realize your family was dysfunctional? And they’ll tell stories of, well, I went to my friend’s house and his dad was so nice to him and like didn’t scream at him and criticize him.
And I was like, oh, other people don’t act that way. And so I wonder if there’s something to that with what you’re saying, that people start to kind of have this awakening around that age that my family isn’t like other families.
Michelle: I’ll tell you what it is. And honestly, if I were gonna spend more time in school and studying, this is what I would have wanted my dissertation to be on, the impact. So when a family, there is a divorce, it obviously gives a child an out much more so than if like you’re in a two parent home, you can’t like not have anything to do with one of the parents, right?
You just have anger and resentment. But the commonalities between the girls choosing to not have anything to do with particularly a father figure and the way that this father behaves, it’s like textbook. It’s a narcissistic parent, my way or the highway, your feelings don’t matter.
It’s what I say goes, it’s just this need for control versus connection. And it just, it’s every day, every day. And when there is a divorce there, it gives a child an out to say, well, I don’t wanna be with this parent.
This one makes me feel safe. I don’t wanna deal with this anymore. And it’s, I see it happening all the time.
I’m like, my God, that was my life.
Whitney: Yeah, it’s very interesting because I’ve interacted with a lot of people who are estranged from both parents, but a lot of them say that, and because their parents are married. And a lot of them say, I would like to have a relationship with my mother, but she is still making excuses for and covering up my dad’s behavior towards me. So I can’t have a relationship with her.
And so that’s very interesting that when they’re divorced, you can see it play out in a different way, but I think it’s similar dynamics.
Michelle: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I know I have a very close friend who experienced, his parents were married until his mom passed away, but he experienced extreme alienation against one of the parents. And it was like, then the person who was doing that passed away and was left with all this resentment and anger and had to then rebuild a relationship with the surviving parents.
So you see these dynamics everywhere. I just do think where people look at divorce as this negative thing for the kids, it also gives the kids a break from the toxic parent and the toxic parenting. And that’s why they say one safe and stable person is all they need, but remaining that safe and stable person is very, very important.
Whitney: So true.
Michelle: This is amazing. You, like I said, you helped me in so many ways. I think your work, where it’s important, I think that my community get to know and get comfortable with your work is it’s a really a picture for us now and what not to do, right?
Like we’re all just learning, like you said, parenting based on our own child, not on what our perspective should be or what was done for us, like really letting our children have their own experiences and working with that. I think the work you do is really important and really amazing. I know you have your incredible group called Calling Home.
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Whitney: Yeah, absolutely. So at Calling Home, we offer a membership community where you can join and get access to all of our content that includes articles, worksheets, scripts, videos, as well as unlimited support groups. And every month we focus on a different topic, but we also have regular groups like for estranged adult children that we’ve been talking about.
And then this parenting without a roadmap topic, we have an entire content block dedicated to that. So if you’re interested, you can just go to callinghome.co and search parenting and all of that stuff will come up. And there’s a lot more on what we talked about today in this episode.
Michelle: What you’ve built is so helpful, especially in this era of us millennials trying to put together the pieces of our childhoods or unravel them and figure them out. I can’t thank you enough. Not only does it help us as individuals, it helps us become better parents, be the parents our children deserve.
I love that we had this conversation. I thank you so much. Everybody go check her out at sitwithwit on Instagram and callinghome.co. And obviously we will link everything. For those of you looking for more support, having to do with connecting with your children in the midst of a high conflict divorce, you know where to find me, micheldempsey.com for all of our programs, courses, workbooks, you name it. Our goal is to make sure you have an experience with your child that they won’t need to recover from. So thank you for being here and we’ll see you next time on the Moving On Method.
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