Emotional Coping Strategies For Kids Facing Divorce and Anxiety: Full Transcript of Episode 252

Emotional Coping Strategies For Kids Facing Divorce and Anxiety: Full Transcript of Episode 252
Featuring: Dr. Siggie Cohen
Michelle (Host)
Dr. Siggie (Guest)
Meet Dr. Siggie: Why She Does This Work
Michelle:
Today’s guest is a true game-changer for parents navigating anxiety—especially during separation or divorce. Dr. Siggie has 35+ years of experience supporting families with emotional resilience, and her grounded, practical approach to parenting is unmatched.
Dr. Siggie:
I’ve always been an observer—an empath. My own childhood made it clear how helpless and confused children can feel. That clarity shaped my purpose: helping children and their parents navigate tough emotions and complex life changes.
What Is Anxiety, Really?
QUOTE:
“Anxiety isn’t new. We’re just finally looking it in the eye and asking—‘Now what?’” — Dr. Siggie
What Is Anxiety and Where Does It Start?
Dr. Siggie:
Anxiety is innate. It’s our survival response—part of being human. From birth, children experience discomfort and distress. As they develop, their brains become more attuned to signals of danger—even when the threat isn’t literal.
Michelle:
We want our kids to be calm and secure, but we’re often operating from our own heightened anxiety. The pressure to “get it all right” makes it worse.
Understanding Childhood Anxiety
How Early Does It Begin?
Dr. Siggie:
From birth. Infants cry from discomfort—pain, hunger, overstimulation. That’s an early form of anxiety. As they grow, stranger anxiety and sensory overwhelm evolve into more nuanced fears. It’s not about eliminating fear but building tolerance and response skills.
Common Signs of Anxiety in Children
Hyper-focus on a parent’s emotions

Sudden changes in school performance

Withdrawal from friends or activities

Over-compliance or parent-pleasing behavior

Physical symptoms like headaches or stomachaches

QUOTE:
“It’s not that they’re not affected. It’s just that anxiety doesn’t always look like you expect it to.” — Michelle
Anxiety and Divorce: The Hidden Toll
Why Is Divorce So Triggering?
Dr. Siggie:
Divorce feels like survival mode—for adults and kids. It pulls out the worst in people. Parents must work double time to stay rational and regulate emotions. The child’s brain interprets hostility between parents as a threat.
Michelle:
Divorce isn’t always tragic, but how we show up for our kids can make it feel that way. It’s exhausting trying to be regulated when everything feels like it’s falling apart.
QUOTE:
“Divorce is an adult decision, but it’s a child’s lived experience.” — Michelle
The Problem with Parentifying Our Kids
When Kids Try to Take Care of You
Michelle:
Some parents feel comforted when their child favors them or checks on their emotional state. But this can be a warning sign of anxiety and misplaced emotional labor.
Dr. Siggie:
Children shouldn’t be your ally. They’re not emotionally equipped for that role. When a child feels responsible for a parent’s emotions, they suppress their own, which breeds anxiety and confusion.
The Cycle of Over-Fixing
Dr. Siggie:
Parents often try to erase anxiety with comfort: more lights, more toys, more reassurance. But over-accommodation leads to helplessness. It teaches kids, “I can’t handle hard things without my parent fixing it.”
How to Break the Cycle:
Stop rescuing. Start responding.

Avoid invalidating language (“But look how lucky you are…”)

Normalize discomfort: “This is hard. We’ll get through it together.”

Model coping, not perfection

QUOTE:
“Your child doesn’t need a perfect life. They need the tools to handle an imperfect one.” — Dr. Siggie
What to Do If You Suspect Your Child Has Anxiety
First Steps:
Seek support: from a therapist, coach, or school counselor

Normalize therapy: It’s okay to say, “This is bigger than me.”

Model healthy coping: e.g., “I’m overwhelmed, so I’m going for a walk.”

Use school resources: Social workers, group support (like Banana Splits)

QUOTE:
“When your child sees you regulate your anxiety, it gives them permission to do the same.” — Michelle

About the Everything Anxiety Course
Dr. Siggie:
My Everything Anxiety course isn’t about fixing your child—it’s about helping them strengthen from within. You’ll learn to:
Reframe what anxiety means

Recognize signs across all ages

Avoid over-accommodation traps

Build your child’s resilience toolkit

Key Lessons from the Course:
Anxiety is not the enemy—helplessness is.

Coping ≠ eliminating discomfort. Coping = regulating through it.

Empower kids to be problem-solvers, not perfection-seekers.

The conversations we have with our children about divorce will ultimately determine how well they adapt to being co-parented. Talking to children about divorce can be tricky and of course, emotional – let us teach you the best way to have the conversation: https://community.momsmovingon.com/checkout/how-to-talk-to-kids-about-divorce
Learn more about The Moving On Method® https://michelledempsey.com/shop-courses/
Get one-on-one coaching from Michelle: https://michelledempsey.com/coaching/
Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@TheMichelleDempsey
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Full Transcript

[Michelle]
In this conversation with Dr. Sigge, we break down everything you need to know about co-parenting and your kids and having anxiety about the process and how your children are going to feel and whether or not they are going to develop the anxiety we are so scared of them developing. But the truth is, Dr. Sigge helps us break this down in a really, really real way. She’s authentic.

She’s honest. She says, look, listen, hard times are going to create anxiety. The idea is not to pretend it isn’t there or make it disappear.

It’s how to learn how to cope, because whether it’s being a child of divorce or being an adult in the real big scary world one day, there are things that are going to make us anxious. And we have to own that and learn how to deal with it rather than pretend it shouldn’t exist. So if nothing more, this conversation is going to take the stress off your shoulders of having to feel like you’re doing it all perfectly and raising kids who have nothing to worry about.

That is not the goal. If you don’t know Dr. Sigge, she’s a child development specialist with over 35 years of experience working with children and families of all kinds. She is also a mother herself, and she’s been so passionate for years about sharing these tools to help us as parents really do the best we can without being too hard on ourselves.

She’s also got the Everything Anxiety course that will be linked in the show notes that you should really consider checking out if you are. You need a really real way to separate your own feelings from the parenting process and learn how to teach not just yourself coping mechanisms that are healthy for your children to replicate, but teaching your children what it is they can do when things feel a little bit overwhelming. What a gift to give them.

Thank you for being here. Let’s meet Dr. Sigge. Just a few weeks ago, I was on the West Coast, and I had the absolute pleasure of meeting our guest.

She was co-hosting an event alongside my good friend, who you guys probably know, Erin Morrison, all for her book. Also, I met Dr. Sigge, and it was like a fangirl moment for me, but also sparked this need to have a conversation because something I struggle with and so many of my clients struggle with is this idea of anxiety. Everyone’s anxious.

We’re anxious. Our kids are becoming more and more anxious. This is all we seem to hear about, yet I do feel there’s so much more we need to learn.

Sigge, I’m so happy you’re here.

[Dr. Siggie]
Thank you. I’m happy to be here and good to see you again. It was wonderful meeting you in person.

[Michelle]
It was a real treat for me. My celebrities and my heroes are not the people that are selling records and in the movies. It’s the people who are helping make my parenting experience a little bit easier.

You are one of those people, obviously. Why don’t you give us the background? Of who I am?

Of who you are and how this became the work that you do so passionately.

[Dr. Siggie]
It’s definitely a long, lengthy process to being here. Who I am as a person from the very, very beginning of my life, I think it’s a combination of my personality as an empath and as an observer of people’s behaviors. From the time I can remember myself, I’m watching the adults around me acting, reacting, and trying to take it in quietly.

I’m an introvert and process it in my mind. The other part of it is all the many experiences that happened to me as a child and made me recognize and realize how helpless children are and how confused and how easily harmed they can be when they’re not protected from everything that’s going on or even explained to. I think I took this combination of who I am and what happened to me and combined it to the rest of my life as a person and my career.

Obviously, going to school, studying it only affirmed what I always felt, what I always knew. Learning about it just was like, yeah. I still bring in the combination of these two.

My personal experience is who I am and my personal experience is what I’ve learned in my life over many years and use it to understand people, to be there for them, to support, to guide them and navigate them. Mainly, not just hold their hand through, yeah, it’s hard, it’s difficult, but I think in my personality, I’m also very proactive.

[Michelle]
Yes, you inspire action, for sure.

[Dr. Siggie]
I’m a doer, exactly. I’m like, okay, let’s see. This is what is going on.

We can’t change that. We can cry about it. We can be frustrated, bang our head against the wall time and time again.

Then what? That’s where I’m good at like, okay, now what? What do we do with it?

How do we consider all of you? It’s not just the mom, the dad, the in-laws, the circumstances, the children, it’s everybody.

[Michelle]
I think we grew up in a, at least I know and talking to so many of my colleagues and friends, the idea of parenting was like, we feed you, we keep you alive. Then I think adults kind of take for granted this two things that A, children are only experiencing the world the way we’re allowing them to. Also, what they don’t understand, they’re going to create these narratives for in their heads that they may never share because maybe it’s a situation in which they feel there is no room for their feelings.

I know in speaking to so many parents that I work with, that was their reality and they are so concerned about making it the reality for their children. But you can be concerned, like you said, and then not take action because life gets in the way. Now what?

Now we’re creating or almost creating the same cycle. What I really wanted to talk about today was this anxiety. We are an anxious generation, right?

This is all I keep saying. Is that correct?

[Dr. Siggie]
Yes and no. I think anxiety was always there because it’s part of our natural wiring. Anxiety is really the ability to notice or sense danger.

As animals in this jungle of life, we do need to be able to make a split-second decision of fight or flight. We always had that as human beings. That’s part of survival.

The thing about it is that 90 percent of the time throughout generations, it was under the surface. In today’s world and idea and the way in which we want or think we want to be, it’s right here. We talk about it.

We share. We try to understand it from so many different directions. We want to do something about it.

We fight it. We struggle with it. We take as many different tools or try many tools.

It’s always been there. It’s just that right now, it’s right here. We’re looking at this animal and going, now what?

That’s what I think is happening. We didn’t invent anxiety. We are just seeing it.

[Michelle]
I always think about a couple of years ago, I watched this Ted Talk with Dr. Nadine Burke-Harris from California, where she talked about ACEs, adverse childhood experiences, and how this kind of living in this fight or flight stage will inevitably change the DNA in your body to give you more risk of getting sick, having long-term mental health issues, substance issues. She makes this joke of fight or flight is great when you’re in the woods and being chased by a bear. If you’re living your life in that state, what are you seeing being the biggest issues with people letting this anxiety go untreated?

[Dr. Siggie]
Very, this is so true and so relevant because yes, the fight or flight, that survival mechanism is great, needed when I am in the jungle about to run into a lion or a bear. But life as is today, very few of us are ever going to run into a bear or a lion on our path. The lions and bears are very, very different nowadays.

We still act and react. If I’m late to this, oh my God, if I don’t make it, if I don’t have it, I’m going to die. I’m going to kill him.

I mean, notice that, right? We say these things and it sounds, okay, this is just obvious. But one, we say it way too much into being late is uncomfortable.

It’s not going to kill you. Somebody upsetting you is still painful, uncomfortable. You do, it’s a challenge, it’s a struggle, it’s pain.

You’re not going to kill them or die because of it. They’re not real lions.

[Michelle]
It’s this fear of discomfort we all have, right? We don’t want to feel uncomfortable. We don’t want to make anyone else feel uncomfortable and thus perpetuates the cycle.

[Dr. Siggie]
Well, the enemies nowadays, the jungle enemies that we once had to really understand what to do, whether it’s a bunny crossing our path, I can’t react the same as if it’s a lion crossing my path. I needed to really understand that. These bunnies and lions nowadays are all the same.

Everything is a lion. Everything is as bad as a lion crossing my path. And we’ve lost the ability to really kind of go, okay, I don’t like that this bunny, maybe there’s a bit too many bunnies crossing my path and I do need to figure this out, but oh, well, they’re not going to actually eat me alive.

It’s not the same as a lion. So maybe I should react differently. That’s actually what we have lost in the evolution of not us, but everything around us.

We’re no longer in a jungle. 90% of these things are only going to eat us alive from within, just like she said, as opposed to eat us alive really.

[Michelle]
Yeah. And I think so much of society and television and movies and culture, there’s a saying, I’m Jewish and with my grandmother, it’s like, well, if I’m not worrying, I’m dead. Worrying is what I do.

And I feel like the same across all cultures with that generation. But I think any parent, no matter where they come from, what their background is, they can all agree that they don’t want to raise children who are anxious and feel constantly afraid. But there’s a lot of work that needs to be done from that sense of knowing and actually resulting in raising a child that feels emotionally healthy.

So you just created this course, this Everything Anxiety course. And so I want to dive into this idea or this concept of our kids, how we see the anxiety, what we can do about it. There’s so much I want to break apart here, but first starting with how early are kids presenting with anxiety?

[Dr. Siggie]
From birth, because pain is an obvious part of who we are. That first breath that a child takes is painful to their lungs, which is where this crying comes from. I’m hungry.

That’s pain for a little tiny infant. I’m uncomfortable for whatever reason, too hot, too cold, something’s hurting. So pain is something we try to avoid from the very, very beginning of our life, which is why we express ourselves in that kind of a way.

We cry, we ask for help. We need somebody to attend to us. At what point it turns into anxiety, like true fear of danger is also pretty early on.

Children are extremely sensory. So think about an infant that gets startled by a sound of something, the vacuum cleaner even. Or they don’t like it.

They’re scared of it. They don’t want it. The big track, obviously strangers, anyone who’s not part of who they’re familiar with, that’s anxiety.

We even call it stranger’s anxiety. The fear of something bad is going to happen to me, therefore I am feeling this sense of danger, and I’m trying to express it or save or rescue myself however I can, clinging, running away, hiding, fighting. Every child does something different, but the anxiety is definitely there from the very beginning, depending on also the wiring, the natural wiring.

[Michelle]
Yeah. And I always think about when I first had my daughter and I was in the hospital and the lactation consultant came into the room to try and help with the breastfeeding process, this sticks in my head whenever I get really worked up around my daughter, who’s 10 and a half now, and will now call me on it and be like, you’re stressing me out, please stop. But she said to me, relax.

If you’re anxious, she’s going to be anxious. She’s going to feel it and nothing’s going to go the way you want it to. And I think that is so true for every part of parenting.

The more we show up in this frazzled state and then expect our kids to be calm and worry-free, it’s setting ourselves up for disaster. And I think even as well-intentioned as we are, I work with a divorce population. And even if you’re the most calm, relaxed person in the world, divorce is going to heighten your anxiety, thus transferring that onto the kids.

Do you see this a lot in your practice?

[Dr. Siggie]
Oh, absolutely. I think, and now we can definitely detour to divorce, but one, our state of mind, our actions, and everything that drives our action-reaction has so much to do with who we are, but obviously it affects anyone that’s around us. And yes, from the very beginning of life, because infants are very intuitive.

And so they take what feels like harm and danger from their senses. So we do have to be mindful of how we feel. It doesn’t mean that we can’t feel what we feel.

Mindful doesn’t mean that we’re not aware of what we’re feeling. It’s the exact opposite. It means that I know what I’m feeling right now, and therefore I’m able to process, navigate, regulate it better, not feel it or react out of it.

Take it to divorce, one of the hardest things that can happen in any family. And what’s sad about it is obviously it’s not a tragedy, but it can be very tragic. It’s not a real disaster, but it definitely feels like it.

There are worse things than divorce, but divorce gets the worst out of people. So whoever you are, it’s going to make you the worst version of who you are. And you have to work so hard, one, not to become that, and two, not to think that the other side is that.

And I know many divorced people right now are kind of like, no, but he really is.

[Michelle]
But he’s a narcissist. So, you know, that’s it. Right.

That’s what everybody will say without forgetting that regardless of you want to call them a narcissist or a chicken, you still have to be responsible for your own reaction to this person.

[Dr. Siggie]
That’s definitely true. And also remember that you too are in the midst of one of the worst times of your lives with such sense of fear and panic and stress. Talk about anxiety and anger and defeat and failure and guilt and shame.

I mean, really, how is anyone supposed to act well under these circumstances? And yes, plus you are triggering one another. It’s a combination of who you are that sometimes gets the worst out of you and that other person.

And again, there are narcissists out there. And notice this, a lot of these narcissists are actually fine people everywhere else, except suddenly somehow you bring or their narcissism comes out the worst in this circumstance. So very difficult to navigate, to stay sane, to keep yourself rational.

[Michelle]
Dr. Stigler, I always say that maintaining an emotionally healthy state of mind for myself and for my child as a divorced mom is a full-time job. It is the most exhausting thing in the world, rewarding because I know how my child is reaping the benefits of this. But at the same time, you can’t ignore that it can deplete every part of you because you’re trying so hard on so many different levels to be okay, to make sure your kids are okay, to make sure you’re saying the right thing.

It’s a lot. It’s a lot. And it’s no wonder why we all feel so anxious about it and that our co-parented kids are developing this anxiety.

[Dr. Siggie]
Yes. And what happens, going back to our primal fight or flight, right then in the midst of divorce, we are panicky for our survival, but for our children’s survival, we truly do feel like they, or how they’re going to survive this. It’s real primal fear and anxiety.

And therefore the other parent becomes the lion that’s about to eat us alive, the enemy on our path. And we can’t not be in that state of mind unless we work really hard to compartmentalize that and see it from another point of view. Again, most likely they’re not actually the lion, but they are right now, definitely a big hurdle or bump in our journey.

And our children can survive this, but we have to be mindful of how to help them navigate that.

[Michelle]
Yes. Yes. And many parents will say to me, no, and my child seems fine.

I mean, never asks for anything, super quiet, just does what they need to do. And I’m like, huh, interesting. Were they always really quiet and kind of stayed out of your way?

Well, no, but they’re maturing now. And I always say to parents that anxiety doesn’t look like temper tantrums on the floor all the time. It doesn’t look like a child banging their head against the wall.

And so what are some signs that parents can look for to really see if their child is struggling deeper than just with the transitions that they’re facing?

[Dr. Siggie]
Are they overly consumed by, for example, because these are the introverts, the kids that keep it to themselves because they see that their parents are struggling. So are they overly consumed by how you feel? Mommy, are you okay?

Are you sad? Which is wonderful and feels so good. You just have to, like everything else, make sure that it’s not too much.

Everything has to have a balance. It’s really beautiful that a child has the ability to notice someone else other than themselves. And you love that.

And you think your child is wonderful. Just kind of make sure that they’re not over doing it because now you know that their way of not getting in touch with how they feel and expressing is by zoning in on you and how you feel. Something like that.

Again, almost every child acts differently. Some of them keep it to themselves and just try to kind of keep their own little world intact. Some of them ask more questions.

Some of them act out. Some of them show it in other, right? Like it affects their friendships or schoolwork.

These are some of the big instigators to pay attention to, drastic changes in who they are. If your child’s always struggling at school, that’s something different, but your child did fine and suddenly they are, probably something else is going on. So there are many ways to notice that it’s affecting them.

And mainly you want to know this, it is affecting them.

[Michelle]
Yes. And it’s okay. Everything is going to, everything is cause and effect, right?

I think that the parents are so fearful that it will affect them, that they’re operating from this place of like trying to do everything in their power so that it won’t. But I think what parents really need to know is that it’s okay. It will affect them, but it’s how you are there to repair with them and help them through the difficulty that matters, right?

It’s not whether or not it’s difficult. It’s what kind of support they have when it is difficult.

[Dr. Siggie]
Yes. Very true. So there is a difference between, you know, but Luke, but everything’s okay.

We are okay. You have this, you have that or compensating and so on, as opposed to saying something that sounds almost the same, but it’s not really, it’s like, yeah, we’re going through a very hard time. I want you to know we are okay and we will be okay because resilience and coping skills is what you rely on, not on life being perfect, right?

That’s the difference. But Luke, but this, but that is like constantly trying to sort of like assume that if I have all my ducks in the world, then I’m supposed to feel good about it. Not always the case, but me being able to rely on my ability to be okay in spite of the challenges, that’s very different.

So I want to, you know, parents practice that. Look at your children with that empathy and validation and don’t dismiss it by saying, but look at all the things that you have, but just say, and I know for effect, we are okay because there’s still a lot of things that are okay, even though not everything is and we will be okay. That’s like hope and the trust that we can go through difficult circumstances or situations and somehow make it on the other side.

[Michelle]
I love that. And I think that’s so helpful for everyone to hear. It’s just that reassurance of like, yes, we’re climbing a mountain, but yes, I am your guide.

And when it’s hard, we’re going to figure it out together and I’ve got you. And that goes a long way. I think we feel this pressure as parents to have everything figured out for our kids in the moment so they don’t have to worry.

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She’s always so worried about me. Mommy, are you okay? Mommy, do you need anything?

I mean, she totally loves me more than she loves her dad. Right. And then on the surface, this feels really comforting for a parent who’s desperate, desperately afraid that they’re going to lose their child to the other parent.

But I have to always find a gentle way to say that that’s probably not the best sign. I want to elaborate on this a little bit more and how we can redirect our kids and their worries when they are so focused on us.

[Dr. Siggie]
Yes. So I asked the six, uh, sorry, a 13 year old yesterday and her parents are going through divorce. I said in every story, there’s a good guy and a bad guy in your story.

Is there a good guy and bad guy? She said 100% immediately mom is this dad is that. And when, right.

Like if somebody tells me, oh, you are the good guy. I love you. I think you are doing really well, but he or she that you’re absolutely right.

It feels very comforting. I’m almost happy. It’s like a triumph for me.

Yeah. I, I’m getting this affirmation for my child. The other one isn’t.

And when, what I said to her is like, I mean, think what it’s doing to you to have to decide between your two parents. What we want is to, and over there there’s also, you know, dad is siding with her that the other parent mom is bad. Right.

So it feels to her like she’s got an airline. I’m like, dad’s not supposed to do that. Sweetie supposed to be your father, not your ally.

And the thing is this, I want every parent to recognize when I feel good because my child’s on my side. I want to not think of me and not think of the other parent. Like, yeah, you know, I’m winning here.

What is this doing to my child that has to split himself for herself and love or hate one of the parents? Because I know what it’s doing to me. I’m like, yeah, this is cool for me, but is this the right thing for my child?

Should they actually decide that? Yeah. But the other parents really bad.

And they, I’m like, and I said to her, I don’t know that there’s a good guy or a bad guy, but I can tell you for sure, they both have many flaws that, and I said, you’re smart enough to know all humans have a lot of flaws. We make mistakes.

[Michelle]
Well, it becomes this all or nothing thinking like if they hurt my feelings, they can’t be a good parent. Or if they upset my child during their visitation time, then they’re terrible, right? It’s never like, I’m a big believer in the both end.

They can be both temperamental in ways that we don’t like and in the ways that our kids don’t like, but it’s our job as parents to say, okay, daddy didn’t handle that well, but we know that there’s other things he does do well. So this is that one thing that daddy maybe needs to work on, right? Instead of, yep, well, now you know why I left him.

But that’s what happens. And it’s that ego thing in parenting where we’re just dying to be liked and chosen by our kids when it has to be the other way around. They have to be loved and chosen by us in an emotional sense, not in this 50% mine, 50% theirs type of way.

Yeah.

[Dr. Siggie]
There’s also the flip side of that, by the way, is because I’ve seen that before is when one parent will sort of protect the other one as if not to expose their flaws to the children. And I hear, did you tell daddy this? Did you make sure that he’s like, you know, I’m in charge now of the other parent, making sure that he stays a good parent because I don’t want to hurt my children because I understand that this is harmful.

But now I’m also harming them because you’re denying their reality. Exactly. Denying reality.

And once again, I don’t want to point every flaws of, yeah, you know, he’s irresponsible. He’s so this, he’s so that. And I know how you feel, you know, you, the parent that feels that towards the other.

I know that feeling. But by you, you know, pointing only that out or defending all of it, protecting it is creating a false reality for your child. So once again, some kind of balance.

Yeah. Your dad’s really bad at that. He has to learn.

It’s not my job. I’m really sorry. He has to do this on his own.

But, but yeah, no, he does. But then is there anything you can do to help you to say, right? I mean, first of all, help children voice themselves.

I’m not sending them with messages. I’m letting them know much like you can tell me stuff. You can tell the parent.

[Michelle]
Yep. I think, I think that’s, and relating this back to anxiety, what happens is the way we feel about their other parent, the more the child sees and knows that the more fearful they will be not only of spending time with that parent, but of upsetting you because they’re spending time with that parent. And that’s the anxiety that kind of goes unnoticed that presents as this parentified loyalty bind type of thing.

And later on, this child will grow to be the people pleaser who’s anxious about upsetting everyone else and who can’t trust their own feelings. And the cycle continues from where we were as kids. And so that’s, if there’s, you know, one thing I think is in the line of work that I do with co-parents to help mitigate any kind of anxiety, right?

We can’t, we can’t get rid of all of it, but the part that we can do is not make our child feel responsible for a situation we chose to put them in.

[Dr. Siggie]
Lisa, then Don, you just laughed at me. No, because I was thinking that just triggers so much guilt, right? The situation we’ve put them in.

Yeah. We feel so guilty. We try so hard to make all the right choices for our children, to buy the right thing, to expose them to the, and then we throw them into something like that.

[Michelle]
Yes. But, but then there’s, there’s the different perspective of putting them into this situation was the best way for me to survive my life emotionally. And I get to be the best version of myself as a mother, or, you know, there’s the victim mentality and that’s, that’s a personal choice, right?

That’s ultimately going to define your experience and your child’s experience. But the reality is, and my, my co-parenting therapist told me in regards to my own child, divorce is an adult decision, but it’s a child’s lived experience. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a bad one, but that is the power that we have.

[Dr. Siggie]
Yeah, very true. And another thing to add when you absolutely are right, when you say like, yes, I threw them into this, I made that decision based on my needs for sure. And maybe I even thought of them and so on and so forth, no matter what, what you actually want to remind yourself.

Yes. Divorce is very challenging and difficult and can be damaging in the beginning, but you can get through it. All of you can get through it.

It’s not a real crime, much like. Getting married is a choice. Divorce is a choice.

So you want to own it like that. You don’t always have to fully explain and rationalize. Divorce has so many layers, much like marriage does.

When I made the choice to get married, did I really understand what I’m getting myself into? Did I really know everything about me and the other person? Did I really know all the complexities I’m bringing into it?

No. So that’s how you want to look at it when you are immersed maybe in either guilt or righteousness. It’s complex.

It’s multi-layered, but it still was a choice. I’m not committing any crime. Even though it’s so prevalent, it’s still looked upon as a failure.

It’s not. It’s a life’s choice that has to do something with me thinking about what’s right for me in the midst of me also thinking about others, which are my children.

[Michelle]
Right. Absolutely. And I love how you talked about this realness, this authenticity with our kids, not to pretend like things aren’t hard and we’re not worried, but we can be worried and things can be hard and we can still get through them and take care.

I can take care of you. I always say to my daughter, it’s my job to worry about you, not the other way around. I love that you care about me, but I’ve got this.

You don’t have to worry about me. Oftentimes, unfortunately, parents don’t pick up on the fact that their kids are struggling with anxiety until the ground has been ripped out from under them. Things have exploded.

And now it’s like trying to walk themselves back from being in the middle of a volcano. When a parent gets to that point where they realize, okay, my kid is struggling more than I know how to deal with. First steps to take.

[Dr. Siggie]
Find support. Look further. If you feel like you can do whatever it is that is needed, then absolutely do that.

But don’t try to do it alone. There is support. There is guidance.

Know that some things are bigger than what you can handle. Find the right kind of people, person, that can actually walk all of you through this with better understanding and guidance and seeing all of you. Because a lot of times, I see everything from myself.

Obviously, children see things from themselves, their own point of view. Very hard to see everything. So find a person that can see all of you and really help.

So I would say, don’t shy away from looking for whatever that is, professional support. It is very helpful. And I would say, don’t wait until…

Don’t wait too late. Again, sometimes it’s inevitable. Don’t feel guilty if you did because you tried your hardest and you thought you can do it.

But at some point you’re like, oh no, this is bigger than me. Just say, this is bigger than me.

[Michelle]
This is bigger than me. Absolutely. And it’s okay to say that you’re not doing anything wrong by not being yourself.

You’re not doing anything wrong.

[Dr. Siggie]
Yeah. This is why you call a plumber or a roofer or, I mean, hey, you can fix it on your own. That’s great.

But if you can’t, you do call the professional.

[Michelle]
Yeah. Yeah. You can’t watch a DIY YouTube tutorial on how to fix this for your kids.

You could maybe unclog the toilet. Maybe. Yeah.

But for any parent that’s listening and they’ll either say, well, I can’t afford therapy or my ex won’t agree to it. I always give parents loopholes, right? So I’ll say, okay, so therapy is not an option.

You know what is a perfect sneaky, not sneaky, but little like covert way to help your child that so many people don’t realize. Every child’s school is going to have a social worker, a guidance counselor, a school psychologist, somebody who’s there to help. And in my toughest times, it was like a quick phone call or an email like, hey, I think my child’s really struggling with this today.

Can you keep an eye on them? And right away, there’s a response of like, oh my God, absolutely. I’ll talk to them.

I’ll pull them out of class. I’ll watch them. I remember when I was a kid, my school had something called banana splits where all the children of divorce would get pulled out for this weekly group.

And we’d hang out with the school psychologist and talk and journal. But hello, Dr. Siggy, this is why we love you because you are giving these resources. You have all of these opportunities for parents to be able to help on a deeper level to say, I don’t know how to do this.

I need support. And you have this with your new course. You have the Everything Anxiety course.

Can you talk a little bit about this? Because I feel like we all need this so badly.

[Dr. Siggie]
Yes. So the Everything Anxiety course is explaining to parents from the very beginning and throughout the many different stages and ages, what is going on with their children that are displaying anxiety in many different forms, right? Physical, mental, emotional, acting out and all of that and how to respond better.

And what I mean by that is we do not fix anxiety. We learn to strengthen ourselves, right? If I cannot lift something heavy, I either ask for help or I increase my own skills and abilities.

I strengthen my muscles. So 90% of the course is all these many different angles of anxiety and how not to jump in and try to take the anxiety away. Buy every gadget, fix everything in the house, be with them, lay with them, turn every light, every mute, right?

I mean, no. What your child needs is you helping them bring from within their own skills of coping, resilience, strength, problem solving. And yes, you’re like, OK, my two-year-old cannot, but I agree.

But you can begin to do some of that by understanding that it’s not your job to constantly rescue your child and accommodate their life in such a way that they don’t have to do anything. Yeah. This creates more anxiety.

So part of what I explain is how the cycle of helpless overfixing creates helplessness. Helplessness creates anxiety. I don’t know what to do.

Right. But I know what to do. Very different way of managing the same circumstance.

[Michelle]
Yeah.

[Dr. Siggie]
So I just want to say, by the way, it is connected to what you said earlier. And I love that, that, yes, I can’t pay. I can’t afford it.

He won’t, you know, you won’t agree. She won’t agree. I’ve seen all of it.

You’re right. School can jump into some form of support. But here’s another thing.

You can decide for yourself to go to therapy, to help your children. So it’s not just your own therapy. Nobody has to agree whether or you can go to therapy.

You want to go to therapy and say, I’m here because I need to help my children. I can’t bring them in, but I can learn. And here are all the many different scenarios that are happening.

Help me navigate that. So I have the language. I have the right response.

I have the understanding.

[Michelle]
Absolutely. I’m glad you said that because as you were talking about all of these things we can learn and do with our kids, very hard to put into practice if we haven’t done them for ourselves. It’s like the oxygen mask on the airplane, right?

You don’t put it on yourself first. You’re not going to be able to help your kids. And so sometimes the only thing you can do is help yourself.

And that in itself is going to be enough for your kids where you can separate yourself from the bigger, more emotional picture of getting your children through the divorce and helping them with their anxiety. Sometimes that’s enough.

[Dr. Siggie]
Yeah. And that’s the course. It’s not how to fix, what can I, shall I lay with my child 10 minutes or only two minutes?

Shall I leave them to cry? Shall I buy another, whatever night light and so on? No, it’s about you understanding what you are faced with and then know how to approach it.

So a lot of it is a whole different mindset, reframing of how we see anxiety in our children and moving away from, don’t think about it, count to 10, look at all this stuff you have, be grateful. I mean, we have endless tools, right? To help them fix their anxiety, except for the one that’s most needed, cope with their anxiety.

Yes. Coping, man. Again, I mean, when you think about it, that’s truly the functionality of life.

I can’t guarantee or pretend that everything’s going to go according to plan. I can’t, I want to, I can’t, but what I can is equip my child with the skills to be resilient, not to fully break down. We can all break down, but how do we put ourselves back together?

What do we know in terms of being proactive, relying, trusting on help, support, my own? All of that is what you’re doing. That’s what the course is about.

[Michelle]
Yeah. And you know, it just, when we say the word cope and coping mechanisms, right away, I’m sure anyone listening jumped to their own thing that they use to cope, right? And nine times out of 10, it’s not the thing they’d want their child to be doing one day.

So modeling, modeling, for me, it’s like, if I’m getting stressed and tense, I will say, Bella, I’m feeling really overwhelmed and overworked right now. I know the right thing to do for myself is take a walk. Would you like to come with me?

And these are the ways that I model. I’m not like, hold on, I’m going to go throw back a shot of tequila and scream into a pillow, you know? And so again, it’s asking of yourself before you expect your children to behave in a certain way.

That’s, it’s so important. I’ve loved this conversation, partly selfishly because of my own process, my own struggle with anxiety, my daughter’s, my divorce, but also because this is so important for all parents and to know that there is support in ways that is really, really attainable. It doesn’t feel like that thing you can ever get to, all available from you.

Dr. Siggy, how can everyone find you? And obviously we’re going to link this course for everyone. Thank you.

[Dr. Siggie]
So all social media, I’m there. My website, drsiggy.com has the courses, not just this, has three other courses, lots of other information and support. Some of it is also free, so you can go on the website.

It’s a wealth of information of all sorts, Instagram. Yeah, I’m there.

[Michelle]
Or you can just follow me because I’m always reposting all of her stuff. Thank you, Michelle, for that. Thank you.

I love this so much. I love the work that you do. Everybody listening, if you’re listening to this, it’s because you are obviously worried about doing the right things for your kids.

You should give yourself a pat on the back for that. And now, just like Dr. Siggy said, we’re not here to be perfect. We’re here to do the best we can and have a little faith in our abilities to raise happy, healthy, confident kids despite divorce.

Thank you so much for listening. And we’ll see you next time on the Moving On Method.